Sudanese ceremonial type kaskara

Jim McDougall · 22nd December 2021, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edster

Thanks, Jim for adding your expertise. Based on your comments I suggest that available examples here and on other Forum posts indicates there are two kinds of Mahdiya era thuluth swords with different characteristics.

1. The legit weapons like yours with forged and fullered blades, well formed cast bronze cross-guards and leather wrapped grips. Likely carried by the Khalifa's commanders of lesser military units. Most high ranking emirs had full fledged kaskaras with silver dress, but without thuluth.

2. Derivative examples like Jack's with shorter sheet metal blades, no fullers, derivative cast bronze cross-guards and croc covered grips and often scabbards. These likely were made in Omdurman as well, but in volume and distributed during the Mahdiya and continued after the 1899 Re-Conquest as souvenirs.

Regards,
Ed

Thanks Ed,
I think thats right. Some of the indications in some resources mention that the Omdurman arsenal was loaded with tons of tools and metal from Khartoum. Gordon was there to build infrastructure, railroads and the river boats etc. I have even seen kaskara with the sheet metal stock stamping (I think one is pictured in Briggs).
There was truly an obsession with souvenirs alright. If the numbers of weapons seen over the years as trophies were counted, Kitchener wouldnt have had a chance if THAT number of warriors were there!

Best,
Jim

Jack Fletcher · 22nd December 2021, 11:08 AM

Thankyou all for your replies they are most helpful.

Jim and Ed its interesting you mentioned the 2 different types of these sorts of kaskaras as it brings me nicely onto my other one that falls more into a functional fighting sword rather than just a symbolic item.

This one has a 33inch blade that appears to be well constructed but has engraved rather than stamped ornate crescent moons. Not sure how practical the handle would have been though with all the ridges from the croc skin.

I've attached photos for your viewing.

Edster · 22nd December 2021, 04:20 PM

Jack,

Your last sword has a righteous imported 19th C. blade with nicely done fullers and half moon etchings. To me the croc skins were incorporated to appeal to Victorian travelers post-reconguest. The grip is too rough for a legitimate hand hold and the scabbard appears not to have attachments for a baldric to carry it over the shoulder. While there are mentions of "crocodile cults", I haven't run across any reports in Sudanese Notes & Records that has lots of ethnographic papers dating from 1918 to 1974; and I've browsed most of the them. Also, over use of croc imagery doesn't seem "Islamic". The above is based on belief rather than facts so take it as you will.

Regards,
Ed

Jack Fletcher · 22nd December 2021, 05:20 PM

Hi Ed

Really appreciate the answer on the other kaskara and I would definitely agree with you that the grip definitely isn't practical and neither is the scabbard. I would definitely be with the train of thought that the original handle has either been removed or come off and has been replaced with croc skin and fitted with a macabre croc scabbard.

But as victorian tourist must have done there is something about it I love and had to have one like this

Edster · 22nd December 2021, 05:36 PM

Jack,

The croc treatment is rich in exotica and certainly attractive, worth having. I found this short report on a croc cult in Upper Egypt c. IV c. BCE in American Anthropologist 1932, p.550. So they did exist. Sorry for weird script layout re "copy & paste"

THE CULT OF THE CROCODILE
The recent discoveries by Professor Anti of Padua University at the site of
Tebtunis (Fayum, Egypt) show that crocodile worship was peculiar to that place
as at Kom Ombo (Upper Egypt). The site is regarded as Graeco-Roman and dates
as such from the IVth century B.C. It is evident that the local deity Sebek (Seknebtuni or Sebek, Lord of Tunis) was adopted by the Greek colonists engaged there
locally in agriculture. The exact origin of the crocodile cult is undetermined. The
reptile is regarded as a symbol of fertility and also strength.1 Nilotic people seem
to have regarded the reptile as a river god and there are vestiges of this belief today.
A fortress monastery, 400 feet by 200 feet, which was enclosed by a brick wall
13 feet thick and 20 feet high, was discovered at Tebtunis. The building was similar
to the Coptic fortress monasteries so familiar to tourists on the Nile. The priests of
the Tebtunis monastery appear to have practised all the arts and sciences for which
their medieval Christian successors became famous in Europe. Definite traces of
surgery, medicine, literature, painting etc. have been found in the dwellings.
This crocodile cult is found in many other places. The Illustrated London News
of May 30, 1931 contains photographs of the sacred crocodile of Ibadan (Nigeria)
which is said to be at least 150 years old and still possesses a hearty appetite.
It is a curious fact that certain natives from Argungo, near Sokoto, seem to
possess the power of charming these reptiles. Pilgrims from Argungo to Mecca used
to catch crocodiles in the Blue Nile(Sudan),and after killing them ate the flesh. The
writer had all his servants and camel-men laid up for several days with swollen
glands, which they attributed to a surfeit of crocodile flesh when traveling on the
Abyssinian frontier. It is possible that strict Moslems avoid eating the flesh of the
crocodile on much the same grounds that Europeans abstain from pork, Delta Nile
fish, goat’s milk and other recognised germ carriers in Africa.
ARTHUR E. ROBINSON
2 Brampton Road
England
St. Albans, Herts

Jim McDougall · 22nd December 2021, 06:01 PM

Thank you Ed for that information on 'crocodile cults', which is mentioned in I think Reed (1975) but may have been in Briggs.
The use of crocodile hides is a bit of a conundrum, and I recall reading several accounts of the days after Omdurman. It is noted that there were various weapons covered in thuluth (noted as Arabic inscriptions) and many covered in crocodile , but mostly these seem to have been the smaller types like axes etc.

Many of the forces came from conscripted tribesmen from various areas where prior to these campaigns the slavers of Khartoum had raided to acquire slaves. In order to establish control they would appoint chiefs of that tribal group to these contingents, and they fashioned weapons of the type of that region that would appeal to and be recognizable traditionally. These as previously noted were embellished with the thuluth just as the swords.

As noted, these areas of Sudan were key slaving areas, and well connected to the slaving activities that had prevailed with Mamluks in Sennar. These Mamluk connections are important as this is where the use of thuluth is likely from (Mamluk metal work is known for this).

In the years following Omdurman, the remote (almost frontier) areas of Darfur were rife with slaving, and those activities remained in place. In these areas, the crocodile is revered and feared, as throughout Africa. It will be noted that kaskara in the years of Ali Dinar, its last Sultan (killed by British in 1914) became of styling noted to him. With this, the grip is usually covered in strips of the belly hide of crocodile.

In my opinion (and typically met with great consternation) these crocodile covered kaskara were quite possibly worn as fear provoking symbolic weapons by the 'bosses' of the caravans moving slaves. As I was told by a Darfur tribesman I once knew, the crocodile hide represented fear and respect.
These blades are European and of the type brought into these regions rather circumventing British intervention, and as seen are often well appointed with cosmological motif. These are NOT the kind of blades found on souvenirs as this cosmology was key in the nominally Muslim folk religion of these areas.

Also, the crossguards on these resemble those referred to in Reed 1975 ("A Kaskara from Darfur").

Edster · 22nd December 2021, 08:33 PM

Jim,

I wrote a reply a couple of hours ago, but it didn't post. I'll try to recreate it now, at least recall the core.

I had never considered the slavery aspect of croc. elements use for intimidation and fear. I think you have converted me.

Several Nilotic Sudanese groups, apparently the Nuer, revered crocs for strength, etc. and even had clans named for them. I found a good article on " A Cultural Herpetology of Nile Crocodiles in Africa" Simon Pooley, 2016. (Available on Jstor.org, free, just sign up.) One section "Crocodile Societies & Human Societies",p.396/p.6 of 17, includes accounts of how the two species get along. Respectful groups would never kill & eat a croc (and presumably use its skin). Thus the croc grips & scabbards would not derive from respectful groups. I didn't get any connections on croc. reverence/worship.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2639326...o_tab_contents

Best,
Ed

Jim McDougall · 23rd December 2021, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edster

Jim,

I wrote a reply a couple of hours ago, but it didn't post. I'll try to recreate it now, at least recall the core.

I had never considered the slavery aspect of croc. elements use for intimidation and fear. I think you have converted me.

Several Nilotic Sudanese groups, apparently the Nuer, revered crocs for strength, etc. and even had clans named for them. I found a good article on " A Cultural Herpetology of Nile Crocodiles in Africa" Simon Pooley, 2016. (Available on Jstor.org, free, just sign up.) One section "Crocodile Societies & Human Societies",p.396/p.6 of 17, includes accounts of how the two species get along. Respectful groups would never kill & eat a croc (and presumably use its skin). Thus the croc grips & scabbards would not derive from respectful groups. I didn't get any connections on croc. reverence/worship.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2639326...o_tab_contents

Best,
Ed

Thank you Ed!
This is great data you have accessed on the crocodile material. When I was researching some of this stuff years ago, I came across a lot of material on secret societies in various tribal group and regions which involved various animal themes etc. in this manner.

It does seem like there were cases of mummified crocs in ancient Egypt, and of course a lot of tradition and various things have carried from ancient Egypt into the tribal societies of Africa.

Another thing is that in the Sudan and environs, there was profound influence of the Sufi as well as Persian material culture. This well accounts for much of the esoteric motif on some Sudanese blades such as the snake etc.
Most of this is from a lot of research over the years, which I have melded together with the great material from your work you have added here.

Best,
Jim

22nd December 2021, 11:08 AM	#2
Jack Fletcher Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 28	Thankyou all for your replies they are most helpful. Jim and Ed its interesting you mentioned the 2 different types of these sorts of kaskaras as it brings me nicely onto my other one that falls more into a functional fighting sword rather than just a symbolic item. This one has a 33inch blade that appears to be well constructed but has engraved rather than stamped ornate crescent moons. Not sure how practical the handle would have been though with all the ridges from the croc skin. I've attached photos for your viewing. Attached Images

22nd December 2021, 06:01 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	Thank you Ed for that information on 'crocodile cults', which is mentioned in I think Reed (1975) but may have been in Briggs. The use of crocodile hides is a bit of a conundrum, and I recall reading several accounts of the days after Omdurman. It is noted that there were various weapons covered in thuluth (noted as Arabic inscriptions) and many covered in crocodile , but mostly these seem to have been the smaller types like axes etc. Many of the forces came from conscripted tribesmen from various areas where prior to these campaigns the slavers of Khartoum had raided to acquire slaves. In order to establish control they would appoint chiefs of that tribal group to these contingents, and they fashioned weapons of the type of that region that would appeal to and be recognizable traditionally. These as previously noted were embellished with the thuluth just as the swords. As noted, these areas of Sudan were key slaving areas, and well connected to the slaving activities that had prevailed with Mamluks in Sennar. These Mamluk connections are important as this is where the use of thuluth is likely from (Mamluk metal work is known for this). In the years following Omdurman, the remote (almost frontier) areas of Darfur were rife with slaving, and those activities remained in place. In these areas, the crocodile is revered and feared, as throughout Africa. It will be noted that kaskara in the years of Ali Dinar, its last Sultan (killed by British in 1914) became of styling noted to him. With this, the grip is usually covered in strips of the belly hide of crocodile. In my opinion (and typically met with great consternation) these crocodile covered kaskara were quite possibly worn as fear provoking symbolic weapons by the 'bosses' of the caravans moving slaves. As I was told by a Darfur tribesman I once knew, the crocodile hide represented fear and respect. These blades are European and of the type brought into these regions rather circumventing British intervention, and as seen are often well appointed with cosmological motif. These are NOT the kind of blades found on souvenirs as this cosmology was key in the nominally Muslim folk religion of these areas. Also, the crossguards on these resemble those referred to in Reed 1975 ("A Kaskara from Darfur"). Attached Images

22nd December 2021, 04:20 PM	#3
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Jack, Your last sword has a righteous imported 19th C. blade with nicely done fullers and half moon etchings. To me the croc skins were incorporated to appeal to Victorian travelers post-reconguest. The grip is too rough for a legitimate hand hold and the scabbard appears not to have attachments for a baldric to carry it over the shoulder. While there are mentions of "crocodile cults", I haven't run across any reports in Sudanese Notes & Records that has lots of ethnographic papers dating from 1918 to 1974; and I've browsed most of the them. Also, over use of croc imagery doesn't seem "Islamic". The above is based on belief rather than facts so take it as you will. Regards, Ed

22nd December 2021, 05:20 PM	#4
Jack Fletcher Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 28	Hi Ed Really appreciate the answer on the other kaskara and I would definitely agree with you that the grip definitely isn't practical and neither is the scabbard. I would definitely be with the train of thought that the original handle has either been removed or come off and has been replaced with croc skin and fitted with a macabre croc scabbard. But as victorian tourist must have done there is something about it I love and had to have one like this

22nd December 2021, 05:36 PM	#5
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Jack, The croc treatment is rich in exotica and certainly attractive, worth having. I found this short report on a croc cult in Upper Egypt c. IV c. BCE in American Anthropologist 1932, p.550. So they did exist. Sorry for weird script layout re "copy & paste" THE CULT OF THE CROCODILE The recent discoveries by Professor Anti of Padua University at the site of Tebtunis (Fayum, Egypt) show that crocodile worship was peculiar to that place as at Kom Ombo (Upper Egypt). The site is regarded as Graeco-Roman and dates as such from the IVth century B.C. It is evident that the local deity Sebek (Seknebtuni or Sebek, Lord of Tunis) was adopted by the Greek colonists engaged there locally in agriculture. The exact origin of the crocodile cult is undetermined. The reptile is regarded as a symbol of fertility and also strength.1 Nilotic people seem to have regarded the reptile as a river god and there are vestiges of this belief today. A fortress monastery, 400 feet by 200 feet, which was enclosed by a brick wall 13 feet thick and 20 feet high, was discovered at Tebtunis. The building was similar to the Coptic fortress monasteries so familiar to tourists on the Nile. The priests of the Tebtunis monastery appear to have practised all the arts and sciences for which their medieval Christian successors became famous in Europe. Definite traces of surgery, medicine, literature, painting etc. have been found in the dwellings. This crocodile cult is found in many other places. The Illustrated London News of May 30, 1931 contains photographs of the sacred crocodile of Ibadan (Nigeria) which is said to be at least 150 years old and still possesses a hearty appetite. It is a curious fact that certain natives from Argungo, near Sokoto, seem to possess the power of charming these reptiles. Pilgrims from Argungo to Mecca used to catch crocodiles in the Blue Nile(Sudan),and after killing them ate the flesh. The writer had all his servants and camel-men laid up for several days with swollen glands, which they attributed to a surfeit of crocodile flesh when traveling on the Abyssinian frontier. It is possible that strict Moslems avoid eating the flesh of the crocodile on much the same grounds that Europeans abstain from pork, Delta Nile fish, goat’s milk and other recognised germ carriers in Africa. ARTHUR E. ROBINSON 2 Brampton Road England St. Albans, Herts

22nd December 2021, 08:33 PM	#7
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Jim, I wrote a reply a couple of hours ago, but it didn't post. I'll try to recreate it now, at least recall the core. I had never considered the slavery aspect of croc. elements use for intimidation and fear. I think you have converted me. Several Nilotic Sudanese groups, apparently the Nuer, revered crocs for strength, etc. and even had clans named for them. I found a good article on " A Cultural Herpetology of Nile Crocodiles in Africa" Simon Pooley, 2016. (Available on Jstor.org, free, just sign up.) One section "Crocodile Societies & Human Societies",p.396/p.6 of 17, includes accounts of how the two species get along. Respectful groups would never kill & eat a croc (and presumably use its skin). Thus the croc grips & scabbards would not derive from respectful groups. I didn't get any connections on croc. reverence/worship. https://www.jstor.org/stable/2639326...o_tab_contents Best, Ed