British M1803 Flank Officer's Sword with Modification?

drac2k · 12th December 2021, 05:27 AM

Thank you very much for your very detailed and informative answer. Sorry, I can not find any maker's names, and the mottos " Dieu et non Droi," & "Honi Soit qui mal y pense," are very faint.
It makes sense that since each officer was responsible for his own gear, then there could be a fair amount of personal variation within the regulations, however, what struck me upon searching the web and finding numerous M1803 swords, was the fact that 3 examples were shortened at the end of the fuller in a similar tip configuration. It just didn't seem random.
Also, were these swords ever used by the Royal Marines as one internet source stated?

Radboud · 12th December 2021, 07:41 AM

Hi Drack,

According to John McGrath and Mark Barton, “British Naval Swords & Swordsmanship”

It is probable that 1803 Pattern swords were carried by officers of the Royal Marines and Royal Navy. Some variations exist with a fouled anchor replacing the strung bugle or flaming grenade. But without such modifications or a clear provenance to a named officer it is impossible to link an individual sword to any service.

I would not take the shortening of the tip as an indication that the officer who owned the sword transferred to naval service, thereby deciding to shorten the blade.

Unfortunately too much time has passed (your sword is 200 years old!) to draw any meaningful conclusions on who used it and why it was modified.

Cheers
Bas

kronckew · 12th December 2021, 09:25 AM

From above ref. book:

drac2k · 12th December 2021, 02:55 PM

Thank you gentleman for clarifying that point; some were used by the Royal Navy, but they would be distinguished by an anchor on the guard.

12th December 2021, 07:41 AM	#2
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 277	Hi Drack, According to John McGrath and Mark Barton, “British Naval Swords & Swordsmanship” It is probable that 1803 Pattern swords were carried by officers of the Royal Marines and Royal Navy. Some variations exist with a fouled anchor replacing the strung bugle or flaming grenade. But without such modifications or a clear provenance to a named officer it is impossible to link an individual sword to any service. I would not take the shortening of the tip as an indication that the officer who owned the sword transferred to naval service, thereby deciding to shorten the blade. Unfortunately too much time has passed (your sword is 200 years old!) to draw any meaningful conclusions on who used it and why it was modified. Cheers Bas Last edited by Radboud; 12th December 2021 at 07:44 AM. Reason: Manners

12th December 2021, 09:25 AM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,216	From above ref. book: Attached Images

12th December 2021, 05:27 AM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,255	Thank you very much for your very detailed and informative answer. Sorry, I can not find any maker's names, and the mottos " Dieu et non Droi," & "Honi Soit qui mal y pense," are very faint. It makes sense that since each officer was responsible for his own gear, then there could be a fair amount of personal variation within the regulations, however, what struck me upon searching the web and finding numerous M1803 swords, was the fact that 3 examples were shortened at the end of the fuller in a similar tip configuration. It just didn't seem random. Also, were these swords ever used by the Royal Marines as one internet source stated?

12th December 2021, 02:55 PM	#4
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,255	Thank you gentleman for clarifying that point; some were used by the Royal Navy, but they would be distinguished by an anchor on the guard.