TAUSUG BARUNG

Sajen · 10th November 2021, 07:17 PM

Hi Xas,

I am nearly sure that Yves will clean, polish and etch the blade, we will see, if it's from laminated steel the age will go rather in my estimation, when not more in the direction of your estimation.
Otherwise, I own much older pieces where the blade isn't laminated.

I go mainly with the overall patination with the later (60s-70s) addition of the yellow plastic band.
But you describe the problem well, since the 1940s the style until today doesn't change much.
PS: The horn plates at the scabbards are in the most cases from buffalo horn instead of turtel shell.

Regards,
Detlef

xasterix · 10th November 2021, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Xas,

I am nearly sure that Yves will clean, polish and etch the blade, we will see, if it's from laminated steel the age will go rather in my estimation, when not more in the direction of your estimation.
Otherwise, I own much older pieces where the blade isn't laminated.

I go mainly with the overall patination with the later (60s-70s) addition of the yellow plastic band.
But you describe the problem well, since the 1940s the style until today doesn't change much.
PS: The horn plates at the scabbards are in the most cases from buffalo horn instead of turtel shell.

Regards,
Detlef

HI Detlef, you're right on the point that presence or absence of lamination will be unreliable - I've been told there were still laminated Sulu blades being made until the 90s, and there are pre1900s that are monosteel, as you confirmed.

Anyway whichever way it goes, I'm sure that's a reliable fighting blade, as barungs always are. Hoping the thread starter is able to restore it back to its full glory.

David · 10th November 2021, 07:48 PM

I would say that it is impossible to tell from the current condition of this blade whether or not it is laminated. It would need to be polished and then etched to find out. So i personally will draw no conclusions there.
On the yellow plastic wrap, i would still say it would be nice to replace this with rattan. Yes, Vanna has a kris with pink tape wrapped around the sheath. But just because these materials are indeed being used in more modern times by actual indigenous users of these weapons i am not convinced that is a good excuse to preserve the plastic wrap. The plastic isn't in the best of shape anyway, so if you are restoring it should be replaced and it is just as easy and will look far better if you replace it with rattan. Either way, the black electrical tape has to go.

I do agree with Detlef that there is both older monosteel blades as well as newer laminated blades. So i am not convinced that can be used to verify the age of the blade. I think this is certainly post WWII, but how much later than that date is difficult to tell.

Ian · 10th November 2021, 11:56 PM

The decoration of Moro barung and kris scabbards with exotic synthetic materials (including aluminum) is very much a phenomenon of WWII and later, and seldom seen earlier. I agree with Xas that the wrap on the scabbard of Yves' barung is most likely 1980s in manufacture. Similarly, the kakatua pommel is post-WWII, and especially used later in the 20th C until today. Sajen's example has a kakatua with a smaller crest. This style may have appeared shortly before WWII and predates Yves' example.

I can't tell if the blade is laminated and it probably does not matter a whole lot for reasons already discussed. If the dress on the hilt and scabbard are original, then the dates Xas has given are what I would estimate also, making this barung roughly 30–50 years old. It is possible that the blade may be older and was redressed in the late 20th C, but that would be hard to demonstrate.

Sajen · 11th November 2021, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Sajen's example has a kakatua with a smaller crest. This style may have appeared shortly before WWII and predates Yves' example.

Hi Ian,

I think it's the other way around, Xas's example is earlier.

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · 12th November 2021, 02:08 AM

Hi Detlef.

I was making a comparison between your barung and Yves'. Yours and Xas' are roughly the same age, although Xas' might be a little older. In any case, both of them are older than Yves'.

Regards,
Ian.

Sajen · 13th November 2021, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

I was making a comparison between your barung and Yves'. Yours and Xas' are roughly the same age, although Xas' might be a little older. In any case, both of them are older than Yves'.

Hi Ian,

I've got your point! Yves's is the youngest example, my is older and Xsa's example the oldest. And I agree with you and Xas.

Regards,
Detlef

10th November 2021, 07:17 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Hi Xas, I am nearly sure that Yves will clean, polish and etch the blade, we will see, if it's from laminated steel the age will go rather in my estimation, when not more in the direction of your estimation. Otherwise, I own much older pieces where the blade isn't laminated. I go mainly with the overall patination with the later (60s-70s) addition of the yellow plastic band. But you describe the problem well, since the 1940s the style until today doesn't change much. PS: The horn plates at the scabbards are in the most cases from buffalo horn instead of turtel shell. Regards, Detlef

10th November 2021, 07:48 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I would say that it is impossible to tell from the current condition of this blade whether or not it is laminated. It would need to be polished and then etched to find out. So i personally will draw no conclusions there. On the yellow plastic wrap, i would still say it would be nice to replace this with rattan. Yes, Vanna has a kris with pink tape wrapped around the sheath. But just because these materials are indeed being used in more modern times by actual indigenous users of these weapons i am not convinced that is a good excuse to preserve the plastic wrap. The plastic isn't in the best of shape anyway, so if you are restoring it should be replaced and it is just as easy and will look far better if you replace it with rattan. Either way, the black electrical tape has to go. I do agree with Detlef that there is both older monosteel blades as well as newer laminated blades. So i am not convinced that can be used to verify the age of the blade. I think this is certainly post WWII, but how much later than that date is difficult to tell.

10th November 2021, 11:56 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,362	The decoration of Moro barung and kris scabbards with exotic synthetic materials (including aluminum) is very much a phenomenon of WWII and later, and seldom seen earlier. I agree with Xas that the wrap on the scabbard of Yves' barung is most likely 1980s in manufacture. Similarly, the kakatua pommel is post-WWII, and especially used later in the 20th C until today. Sajen's example has a kakatua with a smaller crest. This style may have appeared shortly before WWII and predates Yves' example. I can't tell if the blade is laminated and it probably does not matter a whole lot for reasons already discussed. If the dress on the hilt and scabbard are original, then the dates Xas has given are what I would estimate also, making this barung roughly 30–50 years old. It is possible that the blade may be older and was redressed in the late 20th C, but that would be hard to demonstrate.

12th November 2021, 02:08 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,362	Hi Detlef. I was making a comparison between your barung and Yves'. Yours and Xas' are roughly the same age, although Xas' might be a little older. In any case, both of them are older than Yves'. Regards, Ian.