English Basket Hilt

[Triarii]

Yes, it's a backsword blade.

[Jim McDougall]

That blade type would then place this in the 1620s at earliest into 1640s, as these kinds of backsword blades were prevalent on cavalry swords in that period and well through 18th c. The well known 'mortuary' swords were backswords, and swords worn by British cavalry units were as well.

I have not researched the hilt form, but seems typical of many 'dragoon' forms. The "British' units comprised of course of Scots and Irish used varied forms of basket hilt types, most fashioned in garrison towns by local artisans , some in London by several makers there.

Fascinating area of study (I've been hooked for years!) and VERY nice example!!!

[Triarii]

Thanks.

Mid C17th British military history, tactics and equipment are my 'thing' hence the collecting of swords from the period (a move from Georgian ones).

I've found that the basket hilts are more commonly used in the English Civil War in munition and officer quality (eg Lt Gen Massey and Col Hammond portraits) than I thought. One to explore. The long thread on this forum is great.

I have seen the so-called mortuary (and proto mortuary) swords with broadsword blades. I have one, but that's not typical because the blade is likely to be from the early to mid C16th.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Triarii

Thanks.

Mid C17th British military history, tactics and equipment are my 'thing' hence the collecting of swords from the period (a move from Georgian ones).

I've found that the basket hilts are more commonly used in the English Civil War in munition and officer quality (eg Lt Gen Massey and Col Hammond portraits) than I thought. One to explore. The long thread on this forum is great.

I have seen the so-called mortuary (and proto mortuary) swords with broadsword blades. I have one, but that's not typical because the blade is likely to be from the early to mid C16th.

They were indeed used heavily in the Civil Wars of mid 17th and through the century in the conflicts that endured into the Jacobite unrest. The fact that they were of munitions grade is due to being hilted by garrison town makers and many surrounding metal workers and blacksmiths. The most recorded of these types were in London (Jeffries, Drury) and of course Harvey and Dawes of Birmingham.

An outstanding source is "The British Military Sword" by Stuart Mowbray, one of the most tenacious researchers in this field, but the book stops just short of the 18th century. I'm sure you have the Mazansky book, which is great for typology, but not so much for dating.

Your name sounded remarkably like the famed artist Dan Troiani, whose work on military themes is amazing! Im sure you know it.

Mortuary swords with 16th century blades, breathtaking!

[Triarii]

I have Stuart Mowbrays book and I managed to get in contact with him about the riding sword featured there, which is in his own collection.
I don't have Mazansky, but I found the 100 page essay by Claude Blair in the Caldwell book really useful in getting to grips with the evolution of the basket hilt.

I'd be very interested in any information you may have on basket hilted sword production in London.

Here's the mortuary sword (and a proto mortuary sword for comparison). My jury is out on whether the latter is for infantry or cavalry use.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Triarii

I have Stuart Mowbrays book and I managed to get in contact with him about the riding sword featured there, which is in his own collection.
I don't have Mazansky, but I found the 100 page essay by Claude Blair in the Caldwell book really useful in getting to grips with the evolution of the basket hilt.

I'd be very interested in any information you may have on basket hilted sword production in London.

Here's the mortuary sword (and a proto mortuary sword for comparison). My jury is out on whether the latter is for infantry or cavalry use.

The late Mr. Blair's paper on basket hilts is outstanding!
By London makers, I was referring mostly to Jeffries and Drury, who hilted these military basket hilts for infantry units including Black Watch, known to have used these. They turned them in in 1784 as infantry ceased carrying swords.

As far as the range of English basket hilts, there were numbers of them produced in garrison towns such as Glasgow and Sterling, following more Scottish style. Most others were likely produced by many 'sword slippers' in any number of locations.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The late Mr. Blair's paper on basket hilts is outstanding!
By London makers, I was referring mostly to Jeffries and Drury, who hilted these military basket hilts for infantry units including Black Watch, known to have used these. They turned them in in 1784 as infantry ceased carrying swords.

As far as the range of English basket hilts, there were numbers of them produced in garrison towns such as Glasgow and Sterling, following more Scottish style. Most others were likely produced by many 'sword slippers' in any number of locations.

Hello Jim, I was reading up on the Mary Rose about the English Basket Hilt found after the vessel was recovered recently following its disastrous sinking over 400 years ago and where many revealing weapons were discovered including an English Basket Hilt.

Clearly a tradition had evolved in Scottish quarters that the origin of Basket hilts was in Scotland when in fact it was earlier when this style had appeared .. as a European weapon ...obviously adopted in such armouries as English then presumably slowly filtering North to develop as Scottish Basket Hilts and with the passage of time being associated with that provenance...
I also wanted to say how much I enjoyed this thread and thanks to all who had joined in...

Regards Peter Hudson

[Triarii]

Forgot to say, yes, the new grip on the basket hilt is awful and is on my 'to-do list. The mortuary sword has a latten Passau wolf on it.