Interesting Choora Inscription

ausjulius · 27th September 2021, 07:39 AM

KG is indeed kyrgizstan or can be.. but ive neevr seen a knife like that.. KG can also be kashgar. but this knife has a little bit of age on it not old but its not made last week and somebody carried it.. heres what i think.. afghans dont make knives these days, and for quite some time they were buying them form the uyghurs, tajiks and uzbeks.. there is several tajik and uzbek knife making areas in - if i recall osh and biskek that make knvies for the kyrgiz. it can be indeed that its made in kyrgizstan and for afghan customers by tajik knife makers for example. but its far to "traditional" for the most recent products made in these places for their own consumption,, same with the uyghur knife makers.. most knives made these days are just regular buchak or lil clip point bowies or other sort of more utility styles.. (these type of knife were made in the past and you can see illistrations fo them from kashgar and bukhara ect.) i would guess its either from kashkar or from kyrgizstan and indeed made to sell, but not to any americans but to local afghans.. you can see some footage of pashtuns wearing these and some look recently made.. i was watching a documentary the other day of female to male crossdressing customs among pashtuns in afghanistan and one woman in mans attair had what looks to eb a recently made pesh kabz knife and pistol on a pistol belt.... and ive seen several other in images that appear recently made..

RobT · 1st October 2021, 03:58 AM

Ausjulius,

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that there possibly is a knife making center in Kyrgizstan that is making traditional style chooras for export to Afghanistan because the Afghanis no longer make their own blades. While I consider this a plausible idea, I do wonder why the country of origin is given in English. I doubt most Afghanis could read it. I had also considered the possibility that these chooras were made as much for foreign troops as for the native Afghan market but then I asked myself, would a foreign soldier care about country of origin on a war bring back and concluded that wasn't likely.

Sincerely,
RobT

ausjulius · 2nd October 2021, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobT

Ausjulius,

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that there possibly is a knife making center in Kyrgizstan that is making traditional style chooras for export to Afghanistan because the Afghanis no longer make their own blades. While I consider this a plausible idea, I do wonder why the country of origin is given in English. I doubt most Afghanis could read it. I had also considered the possibility that these chooras were made as much for foreign troops as for the native Afghan market but then I asked myself, would a foreign soldier care about country of origin on a war bring back and concluded that wasn't likely.

Sincerely,
RobT

no idea if they make chooras.. but they make all manner of knives. ". I doubt most Afghanis could read it." yep.. . no the knife is not made to sell to Americans.. you could sell those american troops a sharpened carrot for 50$. like the fake turquoise the indians and afghans sold to the american troops in kabul 20 cents but they were taking 300$ of dollars. nobody made any effort to supply some ethnically accurate, an afghan knife to an american soldier who dosnt know the difference between that and any other knife, whats the difference...... .. its made for the afghans. spending money to import it just for Americans from a place where its not popular makes no sense.
why put English.. why not..? you want them you put Cyrillic that afghans also dont read? or Pushtu in arabic script that tajiks making knives in kyrgizstan dont read? what language do you want them to put on the knife? English is good .. people like it, shows "quality" ive seen uyghur knives with English on them too... lots of fake guns in pakistan have English jibberish too.

this knife is made for afghans to buy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iPEzIg6Fc4 here you can see knife making in Charikar, a pashtun village near kabul.. they make these there too but the quality is so so and the production dosnt meet the demand, mostly due to the conflict situation.. .. hence afghans importing so many knives. its just like the iraqis importing the persians knives in large numbers.

RobT · 7th October 2021, 12:18 AM

Why not give the country of origin in Pashto? The alphabet is basically Arabic. While most people in Kyrgizstan or Tajikistan don't speak Pashto, surely there are enough there that could write a simple "Made In" phrase. I can never recall seeing an item made in Japan, China or India that was exported to the US with the country of origin in Kanji, Hanzi or Devanagari. I would assume that the bulk of those populations don't speak English either. Furthermore, the country of origin is always given as "Made In" followed by the name of the country as it is commonly known in the US (not Nihon, Zhongguo or Bharata). All non-western and non-new world country of origin labels I have seen follow this format. (Curiously, western and new world exporters often give the country of origin in their native language [ie Hecho En Mexico]).
If the intent of the "Made In K G" phrase on my knife was simply to lend a certain cachet to the item, why not just use gibberish instead of an actual phrase that makes sense? Presumably, the intended customers wouldn't know the difference.

Sincerely,
RobT

Hagard · 26th June 2024, 03:56 PM

Hi Robt,
I know it's an old thread but do you still have this choora ?
So yes would you be kind enought to post a close-up of the arabic writing on the blade?
Regards

Bob A · 26th June 2024, 04:29 PM

Somehow I'm not sanguine about Central Asians looking to the US Dept of State to verify proper national abbreviations.

Billboard-size gilt attributions of origin are a little off-putting to me, but then, nothing exceeds like excess.

The plastic seems to wish it was old ivory. The maker, wherever he may be, did go the extra mile in ornamenting his blade, so he deserves an "A" for effort anyway. Interesting knife, to say the least.

RobT · 27th June 2024, 12:20 AM

Hagard,
Dang! I never saw that. I don’t know for sure which way is up so I have provided two close-ups.

Bob A,
The world is getting smaller and smaller and savvy retailers in every corner of the globe are using market specific hooks to enhance sales so I would not discount Central Asians using an internationally recognized abbreviation to sell their items.
I would be disquieted by the large brass COO on a purportedly old item but this piece looks to be very recently made so I don’t find the designation (in English no less) to be out of place.
My images are light. The actual color of the hilt scales is exactly that of butterscotch amber.
As I said in my original post, the item is well wrought and every bit as lethal as a 19th century version. The maker deserves an A+ for his work and a gold star for carrying on the tradition.

Sincerely,
RobT

27th September 2021, 07:39 AM	#1
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 439	KG is indeed kyrgizstan or can be.. but ive neevr seen a knife like that.. KG can also be kashgar. but this knife has a little bit of age on it not old but its not made last week and somebody carried it.. heres what i think.. afghans dont make knives these days, and for quite some time they were buying them form the uyghurs, tajiks and uzbeks.. there is several tajik and uzbek knife making areas in - if i recall osh and biskek that make knvies for the kyrgiz. it can be indeed that its made in kyrgizstan and for afghan customers by tajik knife makers for example. but its far to "traditional" for the most recent products made in these places for their own consumption,, same with the uyghur knife makers.. most knives made these days are just regular buchak or lil clip point bowies or other sort of more utility styles.. (these type of knife were made in the past and you can see illistrations fo them from kashgar and bukhara ect.) i would guess its either from kashkar or from kyrgizstan and indeed made to sell, but not to any americans but to local afghans.. you can see some footage of pashtuns wearing these and some look recently made.. i was watching a documentary the other day of female to male crossdressing customs among pashtuns in afghanistan and one woman in mans attair had what looks to eb a recently made pesh kabz knife and pistol on a pistol belt.... and ive seen several other in images that appear recently made.. Last edited by ausjulius; 27th September 2021 at 07:53 AM.

1st October 2021, 03:58 AM	#2
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 536	But Why in English? Ausjulius, If I understand you correctly, you are saying that there possibly is a knife making center in Kyrgizstan that is making traditional style chooras for export to Afghanistan because the Afghanis no longer make their own blades. While I consider this a plausible idea, I do wonder why the country of origin is given in English. I doubt most Afghanis could read it. I had also considered the possibility that these chooras were made as much for foreign troops as for the native Afghan market but then I asked myself, would a foreign soldier care about country of origin on a war bring back and concluded that wasn't likely. Sincerely, RobT

7th October 2021, 12:18 AM	#4
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 536	Why Not Pashto? Why not give the country of origin in Pashto? The alphabet is basically Arabic. While most people in Kyrgizstan or Tajikistan don't speak Pashto, surely there are enough there that could write a simple "Made In" phrase. I can never recall seeing an item made in Japan, China or India that was exported to the US with the country of origin in Kanji, Hanzi or Devanagari. I would assume that the bulk of those populations don't speak English either. Furthermore, the country of origin is always given as "Made In" followed by the name of the country as it is commonly known in the US (not Nihon, Zhongguo or Bharata). All non-western and non-new world country of origin labels I have seen follow this format. (Curiously, western and new world exporters often give the country of origin in their native language [ie Hecho En Mexico]). If the intent of the "Made In K G" phrase on my knife was simply to lend a certain cachet to the item, why not just use gibberish instead of an actual phrase that makes sense? Presumably, the intended customers wouldn't know the difference. Sincerely, RobT

26th June 2024, 03:56 PM	#5
Hagard Member Join Date: Apr 2024 Posts: 12	Hi Robt, I know it's an old thread but do you still have this choora ? So yes would you be kind enought to post a close-up of the arabic writing on the blade? Regards Attached Images

27th June 2024, 12:20 AM	#7
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 536	Inscription Close-up Hagard, Dang! I never saw that. I don’t know for sure which way is up so I have provided two close-ups. Bob A, The world is getting smaller and smaller and savvy retailers in every corner of the globe are using market specific hooks to enhance sales so I would not discount Central Asians using an internationally recognized abbreviation to sell their items. I would be disquieted by the large brass COO on a purportedly old item but this piece looks to be very recently made so I don’t find the designation (in English no less) to be out of place. My images are light. The actual color of the hilt scales is exactly that of butterscotch amber. As I said in my original post, the item is well wrought and every bit as lethal as a 19th century version. The maker deserves an A+ for his work and a gold star for carrying on the tradition. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

26th June 2024, 04:29 PM	#6
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 435	Somehow I'm not sanguine about Central Asians looking to the US Dept of State to verify proper national abbreviations. Billboard-size gilt attributions of origin are a little off-putting to me, but then, nothing exceeds like excess. The plastic seems to wish it was old ivory. The maker, wherever he may be, did go the extra mile in ornamenting his blade, so he deserves an "A" for effort anyway. Interesting knife, to say the least.