A Nice Small Punal

[David R]

Is that grip Ivory,or is it possibly "shell".

[Ian]

Hi Detlef,

In earlier discussion I used "late 20th C" to mean the last quarter of the 20th C (1975–2000).

As you know, dating Filipino pieces is difficult. It is hard to know how long it takes Moro items to filter into the commercial stream of the Philippines. Thirty or forty years ago, it took longer for Moro crafts to be traded into the wider marketplace, and the appearance of such items in Manila or Makati occurred some time after their manufacture. Based on discussions with Manila merchants in the 1990s and later, that delay shortened after National Government/Bangsa-Moro conflicts and tensions started to ease. In the last 10–20 years it has become much more common to see recently made Moro crafts available in Manila and other major centers.

Again, based on my discussions with Manila merchants, the types of gunong shown in the original post of this thread are likely of relatively recent manufacture. Those with a prominent central bulge to the grip, stacked horn/plastic/metal/bone elements, and horn (± metal inserts/pins) guards were stated to have been made from about the 1970s, and increasingly since the 1990s. It is possible that these informants may have been off by a decade or so, but some of them had been trading since the 1950s or 1960s, and knew what they were talking about. Based on the information I obtained, these multimedia examples are almost certainly post–1950 and most likely post-1960. [I say "almost" because hearsay is never absolute.]

Detlef, you are perfectly entitled to believe these types of gunong are older and come from the 1930s or 1940s. However, I have found no evidence to support such an earlier date.

Regards,

Ian

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

In earlier discussion I used "late 20th C" to mean the last quarter of the 20th C (1975–2000).

As you know, dating Filipino pieces is difficult. It is hard to know how long it takes Moro items to filter into the commercial stream of the Philippines. Thirty or forty years ago, it took longer for Moro crafts to be traded into the wider marketplace, and the appearance of such items in Manila or Makati occurred some time after their manufacture. Based on discussions with Manila merchants in the 1990s and later, that delay shortened after National Government/Bangsa-Moro conflicts and tensions started to ease. In the last 10–20 years it has become much more common to see recently made Moro crafts available in Manila and other major centers.

Again, based on my discussions with Manila merchants, the types of gunong shown in the original post of this thread are likely of relatively recent manufacture. Those with a prominent central bulge to the grip, stacked horn/plastic/metal/bone elements, and horn (± metal inserts/pins) guards were stated to have been made from about the 1970s, and increasingly since the 1990s. It is possible that these informants may have been off by a decade or so, but some of them had been trading since the 1950s or 1960s, and knew what they were talking about. Based on the information I obtained, these multimedia examples are almost certainly post–1950 and most likely post-1960. [I say "almost" because hearsay is never absolute.]

Detlef, you are perfectly entitled to believe these types of gunong are older and come from the 1930s or 1940s. However, I have found no evidence to support such an earlier date.

Hi Ian,
Like drack I have a deep respect for your knowledge about Philippine weapons but in my humble opinion it doesn't make any sense to work blades meant for selling to tourists from laminated steel. And also the combination from precious materials with aluminium let me believe that these types of gunongs were worked around WWII and not much later.
But like you said, it's not easy to date Philippine blades.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

I would concur with you that this gunong dates to the 60s until 70s which was shown not long ago here but I think that the others here showed examples dates 10 until 30 years earlier.
But also this example seems to have a laminated blade so I guess I was made for use and not as a souvenir.

[Battara]

There are still kris and barong, etc. that are not made for tourists but for using, but they are different in style and in quality. The craftsmen are much fewer today than they were a century ago in general, though there are some very small number of exceptions.

[Ian]

Hi Detlef:

The issue of laminated blades in Moro weapons, especially in the mid- and late-20th C, is an interesting one. Some of the following information comes from our forum friend xasterix who, with other Filipinos, has been researching Philippine blades for some time and has spoken with panday and others who make them.

Laminated blades were the norm during the time of Spanish occupation of the Philippines and into the early 20th C. However, with greater access to steel in various forms, the forging of blades from mono-steels and alloys became more common. These newer steels actually produced better weapons, such that mono-steel was preferred for weapons and tools. This recognition seems to have occurred fairly early in the time of the U.S. presence, around 1920 or so. As we look at Moro bladed weapons produced after this time, there is an increasing preference for mono-steel, particularly in the 1930s, during WWII, and subsequently.

The exception seems to be among "prestige" pieces with fancy hilts. Here the continued use of laminated blades may have been for aesthetic reasons or a nod to tradition. One also notices that some of these "prestige" pieces had poor quality blades, probably because they were not intended for anything more than show while in their scabbard. I have seen several examples of beautiful ivory and other precious hilts on kris with blades that would barely cut butter. There was a time, I think pre-WWII, when this became relatively common and has continued since then. That is not to say that high quality hilts with high quality blades were no longer made, but rather that not everything that looked good in the scabbard was high quality all round.

As a general observation, and by no means an absolute statement, it is customary in the last 80-90 years for Filipinos to make edged items (tools and weapons) from mono-steel when possible. In general, they cut better and break less often—mono-steel does not delaminate. Laminated blades are made either by those who could not afford or could not acquire mono-steel, or by those pursuing aesthetics and traditional cultural techniques.

Finding a laminated blade on a gunong might suggest a few things. It could mean that the blade is from before WWII when laminated blades were more common. Refitting of old blades with newer hilts is common. However, gunong were not highly regarded as weapons and redressing them with fancy hilts for what was essentially a work knife or a concealed weapon may not have made a lot of sense. If you look at examples collected by U.S. soldiers and researchers in the period 1900–1920, these knives were very plain and had simple wooden or horn hilts. Fancier versions mostly came later, and have long been an item for sale outside the culture.

Which brings us to the second reason for finding laminated blades on gunong—the "bling" factor. Laminated blades look cool, especially with fancy hilts.

A style of gunong akin to the original post, but pre-dating it in the time of first appearance, has a similar hilt with a prominent bulb in the middle, and usually a banati, bone, or ivory pommel. The "bulb" is part of the ferrule, and the ensemble is all metal. The bulb may be decorated with filigree and other metalwork. Better quality hilts have silver for the ferrule and bulb, while others have copper alloys (such as white brass/German silver, yellow brass, etc.). In shape and concept this style was clearly the precursor to the multimedia hilts, some of which have been shown here. The all-metal versions were still being made into the late 20th C, but I suspect they have not been made for the last 20 years.

There are other small Moro knives that have been dressed up in different ways. There are all metal knives and scabbards with fancy curling guards, that have been referred to as sarimanok knives. These may date back as far as the 1930s. They feature metal (usually brass) hilts and guard, often with a brass scabbard. Blades on these knives are usually wavy, very thin and poor quality. [The sarimanok is a fanciful and mystical chicken, mostly associated with Maranao folk lore.]

[David]

Originally Posted by Ian

As a general observation, and by no means an absolute statement, it is customary in the last 80-90 years for Filipinos to make edged items (tools and weapons) from mono-steel when possible. In general, they cut better and break less often—mono-steel does not delaminate. Laminated blades are made either by those who could not afford or could not acquire mono-steel, or by those pursuing aesthetics and traditional cultural techniques.

I agree with much of what you are saying Ian, though i believe the jury is still out on the laminated vs mono-steel question. At least i am sure you will still find quite a bit of difference of opinion here. It has been my understanding though that mono-steel is more apt to break than laminated steel, since a laminated blade can restrict the areas of high carbon steel, which is most likely to break, to the areas where it is most needed, allowing the over all body of the blade more resistance to shattering under stress.

Originally Posted by Ian

Finding a laminated blade on a gunong might suggest a few things. It could mean that the blade is from before WWII when laminated blades were more common. Refitting of old blades with newer hilts is common. However, gunong were not highly regarded as weapons and redressing them with fancy hilts for what was essentially a work knife or a concealed weapon may not have made a lot of sense. If you look at examples collected by U.S. soldiers and researchers in the period 1900–1920, these knives were very plain and had simple wooden or horn hilts. Fancier versions mostly came later, and have long been an item for sale outside the culture.

I have seen a good number of old gunong from this 1900-1920 period with laminated blades AND "fancy" dress. By fancy i don't mean extravagant, but rather well crafted from highly prized materials. If you had the means your gunong probably had ivory and silver fittings. I don't think it was so much a matter of the style of the times as what your societal status was. I have attached my own example from this era.

Originally Posted by Ian

There are other small Moro knives that have been dressed up in different ways. There are all metal knives and scabbards with fancy curling guards, that have been referred to as sarimanok knives. These may date back as far as the 1930s. They feature metal (usually brass) hilts and guard, often with a brass scabbard. Blades on these knives are usually wavy, very thin and poor quality. [The sarimanok is a fanciful and mystical chicken, mostly associated with Maranao folk lore.]

Though this is probably not the place to get into a larger discuss on sarimanok, i must say i find referring to this important cultural symbol of the Maranao people as a "fanciful and mystical chicken" a bit dismissive and misleading. It is derived from the totem bird Itotoro, and is seen as a medium to the spirit world via its unseen twin spirit bird called Inikadowa. While the perceived image of this cultural totem has indeed become more "chicken" like in more recent years, it seems to have less in common with this common fowl in older artistic interpretations. It does clearly have a very deep seated position in Maranao culture even if a great deal of it's former power and place has been lost to time and cultural suppression (i.e. colonialization). This is obvious in the way this icon appears again and again in cultural representations and marketing.

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

There are still kris and barong, etc. that are not made for tourists but for using, but they are different in style and in quality. The craftsmen are much fewer today than they were a century ago in general, though there are some very small number of exceptions.

I agree. I have seen some very high-end recently made traditional Moro weapons. Though i have not had the opportunity to price them i assume they aren't cheap since they are not cheaply made either in craft or materials. It is hard to say who these weapons are being produced for, but i do not believe we can write them off as mere tourist trinkets. More likely serious blades made for serious collectors.