Barung(s) for you

Federico · 27th January 2005, 05:10 PM

I seem to remember a kris with similar symbols popping up before, and Battara identifying the odd looking diamond symbol as the ring of Soloman. At least that particular symbol has popped up on a number of other pieces. As to the others, well I am not good with symbols. For years I thought the double bladed sword of David (was it David) on one my kris was a man until Battara cleared that up.

MABAGANI · 27th January 2005, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Federico

I seem to remember a kris with similar symbols popping up before, and Battara identifying the odd looking diamond symbol as the ring of Soloman. At least that particular symbol has popped up on a number of other pieces. As to the others, well I am not good with symbols. For years I thought the double bladed sword of David (was it David) on one my kris was a man until Battara cleared that up.

Mohammed's sword is the double blade, it's used graphically in different forms in Islamic art, I've seen it edges curving upward and also in opposite directions, to me, it is a sword of mercy piercing the heart of the enemy towards conversion, rather than killing.

Ian · 27th January 2005, 07:19 PM

cross different cultures, but were particularly popular in Medieval Europe. And they have strong links to Freemasonry.

Here is a link that shows a reproduction of the Key of Solomon talismans in the Warsaw Museum: http://silverinsanity.biz/~silverin/....cgi/3534.html

Below is a picture from that site.

Battara · 28th January 2005, 01:25 AM

Here are the pictures to which Federico and Mabagani were refering.

The first two are of a sultan's barong made of ivory, gold, and silver with silver inlay of talimanic devices, including the "sword of the Prophet" from The Gods of War by the Metropolitan Museum in NY. The third is the same motif on an Ottoman banner from the 19thc, Christies Auction.

zamboanga · 28th January 2005, 01:47 AM

hey mabagani, that's my barong!

magsukul tuud! thank you!

i got that one from a tausug trader. it was a choice between that and one with a shandigan blade. as to info on the marks on your barong, i'll have to ask him the next time.

here are additional pics of the barong whose weight by the way is 3/4 kilos:

MABAGANI · 28th January 2005, 07:44 AM

Zamboanga, etch shows nice on your pic, can we see your shandigan barung too. I'd like to hear what the Tausug trader knows about the marks. I'll post again when I handle and examine the sword.
Battara, I never get tired of seeing that barung...

MABAGANI · 1st February 2005, 02:35 PM

Bumping this subject brought up about barungs from the recent keris to kris/dating thread.

So where does Sulu/Tausug and the barung in your opinion fall into place, if the Maranao and Iranun retain the kampilan early on as their weapon of choice with the kris coming at some later point. Again it is in the 17th century where I find first mention of the barung and strangely it is in relation to Maguindanao history. In regards to the diffusion of the keris to kris, I don't see it only limited to Sulu, there are clear examples of the early form transcending the major Moro regions that remained independent including Brunei, Sulu, Maguindanao and Maranao each carrying their own characteristics but only one verifiable point in history where they converge, during the rise of the Maguindanao Sultanate, an explanation for the uniform shape of the early kris form. This does not point to an exclusive origin to the Maguindanao but a joint effort among the various Sultanates to consolidate culturally. The barung became favored among the Tausug and was later used to indentify themselves as a distinct group as they began their rise to power while the Maguindanaos declined.
btw After studying Tausug Silat and the traditional use of the barung, I see no relation to what I've heard repeated over and over among some eskrima and arnis practitioners and the short stick or close range fighting systems, that their art is based on the barung, its been passed on as truth for as long as I can remember but needs a good hard look at reality among FMA teachers.

27th January 2005, 07:19 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Solomic symbols ... cross different cultures, but were particularly popular in Medieval Europe. And they have strong links to Freemasonry. Here is a link that shows a reproduction of the Key of Solomon talismans in the Warsaw Museum: http://silverinsanity.biz/~silverin/....cgi/3534.html Below is a picture from that site. Attached Images

28th January 2005, 01:25 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	Here are the pictures to which Federico and Mabagani were refering. The first two are of a sultan's barong made of ivory, gold, and silver with silver inlay of talimanic devices, including the "sword of the Prophet" from The Gods of War by the Metropolitan Museum in NY. The third is the same motif on an Ottoman banner from the 19thc, Christies Auction. Attached Images

28th January 2005, 01:47 AM	#5
zamboanga Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: zamboanga city, philippines Posts: 132	hey mabagani, that's my barong! magsukul tuud! thank you! i got that one from a tausug trader. it was a choice between that and one with a shandigan blade. as to info on the marks on your barong, i'll have to ask him the next time. here are additional pics of the barong whose weight by the way is 3/4 kilos: Attached Images

28th January 2005, 07:44 AM	#6
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Zamboanga, etch shows nice on your pic, can we see your shandigan barung too. I'd like to hear what the Tausug trader knows about the marks. I'll post again when I handle and examine the sword. Battara, I never get tired of seeing that barung... Last edited by MABAGANI; 28th January 2005 at 04:58 PM.

27th January 2005, 05:10 PM	#1
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	I seem to remember a kris with similar symbols popping up before, and Battara identifying the odd looking diamond symbol as the ring of Soloman. At least that particular symbol has popped up on a number of other pieces. As to the others, well I am not good with symbols. For years I thought the double bladed sword of David (was it David) on one my kris was a man until Battara cleared that up.

1st February 2005, 02:35 PM	#7
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Bumping this subject brought up about barungs from the recent keris to kris/dating thread. So where does Sulu/Tausug and the barung in your opinion fall into place, if the Maranao and Iranun retain the kampilan early on as their weapon of choice with the kris coming at some later point. Again it is in the 17th century where I find first mention of the barung and strangely it is in relation to Maguindanao history. In regards to the diffusion of the keris to kris, I don't see it only limited to Sulu, there are clear examples of the early form transcending the major Moro regions that remained independent including Brunei, Sulu, Maguindanao and Maranao each carrying their own characteristics but only one verifiable point in history where they converge, during the rise of the Maguindanao Sultanate, an explanation for the uniform shape of the early kris form. This does not point to an exclusive origin to the Maguindanao but a joint effort among the various Sultanates to consolidate culturally. The barung became favored among the Tausug and was later used to indentify themselves as a distinct group as they began their rise to power while the Maguindanaos declined. btw After studying Tausug Silat and the traditional use of the barung, I see no relation to what I've heard repeated over and over among some eskrima and arnis practitioners and the short stick or close range fighting systems, that their art is based on the barung, its been passed on as truth for as long as I can remember but needs a good hard look at reality among FMA teachers.