British 1803 pattern flank officer sword?

[toaster5sqn]

The 1803 flank officers sabre had a slotted hilt guard rather than a simple stirrup so this is definitely not an 1803.

However sabres became popular with British infantry officers in 1796 when the much maligned spadroon was introduced and a wide range of sabres and hangers were carried unofficially. The British military recognized the issue and passed orders allowing flank officers to carry sabres in 1799 but no official pattern existed until 1803. What you have could well be one of the unofficial 1796-1803 sabres.

It is worth noting that some regiments "standardized" their non pattern sabres and continued to use them as regimental pattern after 1803.

Robert

[cel7]

Originally Posted by toaster5sqn

The 1803 flank officers sabre had a slotted hilt guard rather than a simple stirrup so this is definitely not an 1803.

However sabres became popular with British infantry officers in 1796 when the much maligned spadroon was introduced and a wide range of sabres and hangers were carried unofficially. The British military recognized the issue and passed orders allowing flank officers to carry sabres in 1799 but no official pattern existed until 1803. What you have could well be one of the unofficial 1796-1803 sabres.

It is worth noting that some regiments "standardized" their non pattern sabres and continued to use them as regimental pattern after 1803.

Robert

Thanks Robert for sharing this knowledge! That would be a logical explanation.

[fernando]

I would not discuss the pattern of this sword. I just find it rather surprising that the blade of a cavalry sword, or a sabre, even the flank version, would measure 21,65 inches .

[kronckew]

A short-sword, or hanger. Naval officers fighting sword?? Police of the period carried hangers on occasion. An overall photo of the sword and the point is usually informative regarding it being shortened. Engravings like shown are moire typical of pre-pattern swords.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by kronckew

... An overall photo of the sword and the point is usually informative regarding it being shortened....

I didn't follow that path as the scabbard and its length seem to be te right thing.

[cel7]

Some more pictures. If you look closely you can see that the fuller runs almost to the point. So perhaps the blade was shortened for some reason.

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by cel7

Some more pictures. If you look closely you can see that the fuller runs almost to the point. So perhaps the blade was shortened for some reason.

Hi,
Not necessarily and probably not. Many blades of the latter 18thC have fullers that run to the point. I have several with this on both straight and curved blades.
Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

Great comments and on point observations. I agree with this probably being a band hanger or of that genre as suggested by David R. Well noted by Richard and Wayne on the possible law enforcement use and Richards note on later Parker Field swords for the law enforcement of the years into mid 19th and beyond, this is a field of edged weapons not well traveled.

The 'warranted' inscription does not really have to do with battle 'testing' but came from the 'sword scandals' in late 1780s in England. A group of English blade makers, led by Birmingham swordsmith Thomas Gill began protesting the long standing practice of importing blades from Germany.
He claimed the English blades were as good and actually better than the German imports, and initiated testing to prove it.

In the subsequent testing of his blades and several others including Henry Osborn, it was proven as only several of the English blades failed where the failures in the numbers of German blades were considerable.

From here, beginning with Thomas Gill, he began to place the motto on the blade, 'WARRANTED NEVER TO FAIL'. I have a M1788 Thomas Gill saber
with that inscription on the back of the blade. Through the 1790s as late as perhaps 1810, he and several English makers would place the 'warranted' notice on their blades, though typically officers along with etched or inscribed motif.

Officers swords were well decorated, and typically not exactly 'combat' oriented, as in those times officers were not expected to participate in the action, but their swords were mostly used to 'direct' etc. Naturally, that was not always the case, but I have always noticed officers blades were in many instances notably shorter, though by only about 5 ".

In this I agree with Cel7, the warranted signifies the testing of the blade quality, not combat readiness.

[Richard G]

I think this is a British 'non-military' sword of the type supplied to and used by watchmen, constables, bank guards, prison officers etc. Possibly also customs officers and the merchant navy, altho' there is no evidence of a nautical connection. It seems an early example of what later became a very recognisable type associated with Parker Field.
Regards
Richard

[cel7]

Originally Posted by Richard G

I think this is a British 'non-military' sword of the type supplied to and used by watchmen, constables, bank guards, prison officers etc. Possibly also customs officers and the merchant navy, altho' there is no evidence of a nautical connection. It seems an early example of what later became a very recognisable type associated with Parker Field.
Regards
Richard

Thanks for your comment.

I doubt that actually. "warranted" means that the weapon is tested for strenght, hardness, flexibility etc. This was a guarantee that you bought a weapon that met the requirments needed on the battlefield. In other words, a more expensive weapon. Why would you do that if you knew that you probably never need to use it?!

[David R]

Originally Posted by cel7

Thanks for your comment.

I doubt that actually. "warranted" means that the weapon is tested for strenght, hardness, flexibility etc. This was a guarantee that you bought a weapon that met the requirments needed on the battlefield. In other words, a more expensive weapon. Why would you do that if you knew that you probably never need to use it?!

"Probably" is not a guarantee......

[David R]

Originally Posted by fernando

I would not discuss the pattern of this sword. I just find it rather surprising that the blade of a cavalry sword, or a sabre, even the flank version, would measure 21,65 inches .

It certainly is short, even for an infantry officer and more like a hanger or sabre briquet, but!

In preparation for the war with France in 1794, all ensigns under eleven and all lieutenants under fourteen were removed from post. There were some very short officers in the British army.

Myself I think it most likely to be a drummers or bandsman's sword due to the lack of gilding and other detail.