Caucasian? dagger

Kubur · 11th August 2021, 06:06 PM

No offense, but
Muhammad Ja'far was doing top notch objects

https://collections.vam.ac.uk/search...%2c%20Muhammad

So for me it is more a revival of a classic, like a Chanel bag made in China.

More seriously it is a very good counterexample of the dha that I posted, inscriptions can say a lot but they need to be tested in context.

I probably lost half of the forum members on that one

I forgot, you have a very nice dagger!

kwiatek · 11th August 2021, 07:22 PM

Muhammad Ja’far is a very common name in many places and there is no indication this is meant to be the maker rather than the owner

Kubur · 11th August 2021, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwiatek

Muhammad Ja’far is a very common name in many places and there is no indication this is meant to be the maker rather than the owner

It's true.
My main problem is the date, it doesn't match the style and quality of the object.

ariel · 13th August 2021, 12:24 AM

As noticed by Kwiatek, there certainly were more than one Muhammed Jafars between Iran and Bengal and between 1798 and 1898.

I do not think we can be certain that the scabbard is original or not but it looks very fitting and taking into account that scabbards and organic handles were the most perishable components of any bladed weapon and were changed from time to time, this one is IMHO either original or replaced during the working life of the dagger. Doesn’t look new or even recent to me.

This is not a masterpiece dagger for the Victoria & Albert Museum, but a solid working dagger dating IMHO to the 19 century and witnessing quite a lot of real action.

AHorsa · 13th August 2021, 09:16 PM

Thank you all for your opinions, all the information and the interesting discussion!

Kind regards
Andreas

11th August 2021, 06:06 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	No offense, but Muhammad Ja'far was doing top notch objects https://collections.vam.ac.uk/search...%2c%20Muhammad So for me it is more a revival of a classic, like a Chanel bag made in China. More seriously it is a very good counterexample of the dha that I posted, inscriptions can say a lot but they need to be tested in context. I probably lost half of the forum members on that one I forgot, you have a very nice dagger!

11th August 2021, 07:22 PM	#2
kwiatek Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 153	Muhammad Ja’far is a very common name in many places and there is no indication this is meant to be the maker rather than the owner

13th August 2021, 12:24 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	As noticed by Kwiatek, there certainly were more than one Muhammed Jafars between Iran and Bengal and between 1798 and 1898. I do not think we can be certain that the scabbard is original or not but it looks very fitting and taking into account that scabbards and organic handles were the most perishable components of any bladed weapon and were changed from time to time, this one is IMHO either original or replaced during the working life of the dagger. Doesn’t look new or even recent to me. This is not a masterpiece dagger for the Victoria & Albert Museum, but a solid working dagger dating IMHO to the 19 century and witnessing quite a lot of real action.

13th August 2021, 09:16 PM	#5
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 375	Thank you all for your opinions, all the information and the interesting discussion! Kind regards Andreas