A Globular Pommeled Rapier

CSinTX · 2nd August 2021, 01:22 AM

Wow! Thanks for all the info and comparable examples! Yall are quite the resource, with your minds combined!

Of course, we all love the pristine examples but items like this are very interesting. Lots can be learned by being able to see further down into the metal.

I didnt take detailed pictures of the grip because it is my impression that the wood is a quality restoration. Even if it did survive intact, it should be dry and cracked much more than it is.

Thanks again!

midelburgo · 2nd August 2021, 03:13 PM

I believe I remember seeing this same sword at an auction somewhere (?) and it had been found at a ditch of a fortified city in the Netherlands (Breda?, s'Hertogenbosch?) some 5 or 7 years ago.

CSinTX · 4th August 2021, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midelburgo

I believe I remember seeing this same sword at an auction somewhere (?) and it had been found at a ditch of a fortified city in the Netherlands (Breda?, s'Hertogenbosch?) some 5 or 7 years ago.

I didnt get it from an auction but its very possible. Any chance you might remember which auction? Would love to know of any possible history.

midelburgo · 4th August 2021, 03:37 PM

Possibly Hermann Historica, but it could have been just ebay. Sorry.

cornelistromp · 13th August 2021, 04:23 PM

round pommels are simple in shape but very rare on rapiers and swords. In the Netherlands they appeared frequently on civic guard paintings in the last quarter of the 17th century. According to Jp Puype, the round pommel would be characteristic of Dutch rapiers or rapier worn in the Netherlands.
I wouldn't be surprised if the rapier under discussion indeed was found in the Netherlands.
The dating of Ulfberth a 1580 is absolutely right, this is the second time I come across this type of hilt, I have one in my collection of which the blade bears the name IOHAN DE LA ORTA (made by the hand? or referring to Juanes de la Horta a blade smith working in toledo).
BTW Alonso de Sahagun was also active in Toledo between 1570-1600.
What is very interesting of this Hilt type is that it is depicted on a painting by van haarlem dated 1583. see attachement
In the upper ring guard of this hilt type there was a paring plate, probably visible from an incision on the inside of the upper guard ring.

best
Jasper

13th August 2021, 04:23 PM	#5
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	round pommels are simple in shape but very rare on rapiers and swords. In the Netherlands they appeared frequently on civic guard paintings in the last quarter of the 17th century. According to Jp Puype, the round pommel would be characteristic of Dutch rapiers or rapier worn in the Netherlands. I wouldn't be surprised if the rapier under discussion indeed was found in the Netherlands. The dating of Ulfberth a 1580 is absolutely right, this is the second time I come across this type of hilt, I have one in my collection of which the blade bears the name IOHAN DE LA ORTA (made by the hand? or referring to Juanes de la Horta a blade smith working in toledo). BTW Alonso de Sahagun was also active in Toledo between 1570-1600. What is very interesting of this Hilt type is that it is depicted on a painting by van haarlem dated 1583. see attachement In the upper ring guard of this hilt type there was a paring plate, probably visible from an incision on the inside of the upper guard ring. best Jasper Attached Images

2nd August 2021, 01:22 AM	#1
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	Wow! Thanks for all the info and comparable examples! Yall are quite the resource, with your minds combined! Of course, we all love the pristine examples but items like this are very interesting. Lots can be learned by being able to see further down into the metal. I didnt take detailed pictures of the grip because it is my impression that the wood is a quality restoration. Even if it did survive intact, it should be dry and cracked much more than it is. Thanks again!

2nd August 2021, 03:13 PM	#2
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 264	I believe I remember seeing this same sword at an auction somewhere (?) and it had been found at a ditch of a fortified city in the Netherlands (Breda?, s'Hertogenbosch?) some 5 or 7 years ago.

4th August 2021, 03:37 PM	#4
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 264	Possibly Hermann Historica, but it could have been just ebay. Sorry.