Two West(?) Javaneses Keris with Sumatra style hilt

Gustav · 17th July 2021, 08:28 PM

As so often, we have been through this already a time before.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...irebon+lampung

Today I am quite sure, hilts like those from #1 can be found also in W Java and most probably originated there.

Athanase · 18th July 2021, 01:22 AM

For me the sheath and mendak of keris n°148 and 158 in Jensen's Krisdisk are Javanese. But that's just my feeling when comparing lines of these hilt and sheath with examples whose origin leaves no doubt.

My a priori comes from the fact that I have never seen this type of handle mounted on a blade, with a mendak or selut and in a scabbard typically originating from sumatra.
While I have already seen several examples with Javanese blades, mendaks and scabbards.

But this is maybe just random of the photos I saw on the net.

In ancient discussions people from lampung say they have similar handles in their area called "hulu luday".

Jean · 18th July 2021, 09:51 AM

Yes Athanase, you seem right about pics N° 148 and 158 in Jensen's Krisdisk.
However I never saw such a hilt attributed to NW Java in any reference book, for instance the books from Vanna Ghiringhelli, Tammens, and Marco all point out to South Sumatra but who knows as they may be copied on each other....
I attach the pic of one of my Sumatra krisses with such type of hilt but cannot guarantee that they are old and originally matching.
Regards

Sajen · 18th July 2021, 07:13 PM

I have four handles in this style in my collection, one is very big (the one on the right), I really doubt the Palembang attribution and I believe they originate from West Java but this is just my feeling.

The base of this handle style would fit much better with a Javanese mendak as with a Palembang pendokok, look for example the keris from Jean, in my opinion it's a mismatch, sorry Jean!

Regards,
Detlef

18th July 2021, 09:51 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Yes Athanase, you seem right about pics N° 148 and 158 in Jensen's Krisdisk. However I never saw such a hilt attributed to NW Java in any reference book, for instance the books from Vanna Ghiringhelli, Tammens, and Marco all point out to South Sumatra but who knows as they may be copied on each other.... I attach the pic of one of my Sumatra krisses with such type of hilt but cannot guarantee that they are old and originally matching. Regards Attached Images

18th July 2021, 07:13 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	I have four handles in this style in my collection, one is very big (the one on the right), I really doubt the Palembang attribution and I believe they originate from West Java but this is just my feeling. The base of this handle style would fit much better with a Javanese mendak as with a Palembang pendokok, look for example the keris from Jean, in my opinion it's a mismatch, sorry Jean! Regards, Detlef Attached Images

17th July 2021, 08:28 PM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	As so often, we have been through this already a time before. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...irebon+lampung Today I am quite sure, hilts like those from #1 can be found also in W Java and most probably originated there.

18th July 2021, 01:22 AM	#2
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 420	For me the sheath and mendak of keris n°148 and 158 in Jensen's Krisdisk are Javanese. But that's just my feeling when comparing lines of these hilt and sheath with examples whose origin leaves no doubt. My a priori comes from the fact that I have never seen this type of handle mounted on a blade, with a mendak or selut and in a scabbard typically originating from sumatra. While I have already seen several examples with Javanese blades, mendaks and scabbards. But this is maybe just random of the photos I saw on the net. In ancient discussions people from lampung say they have similar handles in their area called "hulu luday".