Kaskara

Jeff D · 1st June 2006, 11:20 PM

Hi Valjhun,

As Tim, Rick and kantana have noted, this probably is not the best that the Sudanese can do. Most likely it was made for those travelling for pleasure.

BTW My kaskara is 104 cm total length.

Jeff

Rick · 2nd June 2006, 03:16 AM

Jeff ; I see a mark on the blade ; do you have a closeup of it ?

Jeff D · 2nd June 2006, 04:03 AM

Hi Rick,

I will be happy to show these. They are stamped, and a couple are inlaid with either copper or a red gold. The marks are attributed to Peter Kull the last picture is from "Geschichte Der Solinger Klingenindustrie" by R. Cronau. I think I did post this one before on the old forum. If you want any other close ups I will be more than happy to show this one off, crude they say Hummph...

Jeff

Valjhun · 2nd June 2006, 08:31 AM

Well, I'll repeat myself: MOST of the kaskaras&sudanese weapons today on the market are of crude made, that SURELY DOESN'T mean that everythitng from Sudan is crudely made. There are masterpieces of extreeme craftsmanship coming from there aslo.

On the other hand, saying that this kaskara is made for tourists is verry questionable, as far as I know there were never tourism in Sudan.

Jeff, your kaskara is a gorgeus one with german blade. Beutifull inlays, it surely seems gold.

Quote:

One must admit to the efficacy of the Kaskara as it was one of the major weapons used to break the much vaunted British Square during the war in the Sudan against the Mahdists .

Yes, extreme efficiency showed during the last battle, 45 casualties on the british side and 11.000 on the Mahdist...

Another thing . I've noticed that thoose short ones were carried under the arm with the belt over the shoulder. What about thoose lenghty ones? Were they over worn over the back?

Tim, can you make it even more crude that thisone:

ariel · 2nd June 2006, 11:06 AM

So, gentlemen, is Kaskara a descendent of the early European swords (you know, the crusaders story) or of early pre-islamic Arabian swords?

Tim Simmons · 2nd June 2006, 11:16 AM

Could it go west Africa to east African?

Give me the money and I will happily travel across the Sahara taking notes and pictures , into the Arabian peninsula if I have too. Now that is what I call research, I might as well look at arm knives while I am at it.

In my dreams

.

M.carter · 2nd June 2006, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

So, gentlemen, is Kaskara a descendent of the early European swords (you know, the crusaders story) or of early pre-islamic Arabian swords?

The blade certainly looks it descended from the old, pre-medieval arab swords, and probably with a connection with crusader swords too, as those two styles of swords, arab and crusader (early crusades, that is), were very similar in shape. As for the hilt, we have no existing arab blades with their original hilts on, all were re-hilted by the Ottomans, except for a few syrian swords, whose hilts do not look like the kaskara's.

Aqtai · 3rd June 2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

So, gentlemen, is Kaskara a descendent of the early European swords (you know, the crusaders story) or of early pre-islamic Arabian swords?

Oh definitely descended from Early Arab swords, which continued to used right until the 15th century. The shape of the blade is very similar. The hilts however are probably a mixture of different influences.

Check out these links:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...dofMuawiya.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11.../ISAS_27_1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...el_30_ISAS.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...ISAS_pl_80.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...51_ISAS_pl.jpg

ariel · 3rd June 2006, 04:10 PM

British military was transported by sea and the space was very limited.
I do not remember where I read it, but the rank-and-file British soldier was allowed to bring home one trunk of luggage sized ~ 2 x2 x4 feet. officers were given much more space. Which means that soldiers were unlikely to bring long swords, only daggers (likely, quite simple), but the officers could get better examples, bigger sizes and transport them back for free.
Generals, of course, got THE loot....

Rick · 2nd June 2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff D

Hi Rick,

I will be happy to show these. They are stamped, and a couple are inlaid with either copper or a red gold. The marks are attributed to Peter Kull the last picture is from "Geschichte Der Solinger Klingenindustrie" by R. Cronau. I think I did post this one before on the old forum. If you want any other close ups I will be more than happy to show this one off, crude they say Hummph...

Jeff

Jeff , any ideas on this mark ?

Lew · 2nd June 2006, 03:15 PM

Hi All

Speaking of short kaskaras here is one of mine that was posted a while ago.
It has a 23" European blade.

Lew

Valjhun · 2nd June 2006, 06:17 PM

ferara? It shouldn't be inscribed "Ferrara"?

M.carter · 2nd June 2006, 11:23 PM

Beautiful Sword Jeff, I must say, one of the most beautiful Kaskara's ive seen. Valjhun, my amature knowledge of Kaskara's tells me that that blade is an authentic, valuable piece, unfortunately destroyed by someone who attempted to polish or resharpen it. Ive personally seen this act done on many blades, particulary Hejazi Jambiyas (the long bladed ones), whereas the dealer acquires it slightly rusted or blunt, and attempts to re-polish it, and employs a belt sander to do the job, or attempts to re-sharpen it, and grinds it on a bench grinder. Ive encountered one dealer who was showing me a jambiya, boasting his "beautiful" restoration job on the blade, whereas he had actually destroyed it. Many valuable pieces encounter coming out of the middle east encounter such acts. I wouldnt say though, that the your Kaskara is a tourist piece, or anywhere near recent.

1st June 2006, 11:20 PM	#1
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi Valjhun, As Tim, Rick and kantana have noted, this probably is not the best that the Sudanese can do. Most likely it was made for those travelling for pleasure. BTW My kaskara is 104 cm total length. Jeff Attached Images

2nd June 2006, 04:03 AM	#3
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi Rick, I will be happy to show these. They are stamped, and a couple are inlaid with either copper or a red gold. The marks are attributed to Peter Kull the last picture is from "Geschichte Der Solinger Klingenindustrie" by R. Cronau. I think I did post this one before on the old forum. If you want any other close ups I will be more than happy to show this one off, crude they say Hummph... Jeff Attached Images

2nd June 2006, 03:15 PM	#11
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi All Speaking of short kaskaras here is one of mine that was posted a while ago. It has a 23" European blade. Lew Attached Images

2nd June 2006, 03:16 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Jeff ; I see a mark on the blade ; do you have a closeup of it ?

2nd June 2006, 11:06 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	So, gentlemen, is Kaskara a descendent of the early European swords (you know, the crusaders story) or of early pre-islamic Arabian swords?

2nd June 2006, 11:16 AM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Could it go west Africa to east African? Give me the money and I will happily travel across the Sahara taking notes and pictures , into the Arabian peninsula if I have too. Now that is what I call research, I might as well look at arm knives while I am at it. In my dreams .

3rd June 2006, 04:10 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	British military was transported by sea and the space was very limited. I do not remember where I read it, but the rank-and-file British soldier was allowed to bring home one trunk of luggage sized ~ 2 x2 x4 feet. officers were given much more space. Which means that soldiers were unlikely to bring long swords, only daggers (likely, quite simple), but the officers could get better examples, bigger sizes and transport them back for free. Generals, of course, got THE loot....

2nd June 2006, 06:17 PM	#12
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	ferara? It shouldn't be inscribed "Ferrara"?

2nd June 2006, 11:23 PM	#13
M.carter Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 176	Beautiful Sword Jeff, I must say, one of the most beautiful Kaskara's ive seen. Valjhun, my amature knowledge of Kaskara's tells me that that blade is an authentic, valuable piece, unfortunately destroyed by someone who attempted to polish or resharpen it. Ive personally seen this act done on many blades, particulary Hejazi Jambiyas (the long bladed ones), whereas the dealer acquires it slightly rusted or blunt, and attempts to re-polish it, and employs a belt sander to do the job, or attempts to re-sharpen it, and grinds it on a bench grinder. Ive encountered one dealer who was showing me a jambiya, boasting his "beautiful" restoration job on the blade, whereas he had actually destroyed it. Many valuable pieces encounter coming out of the middle east encounter such acts. I wouldnt say though, that the your Kaskara is a tourist piece, or anywhere near recent.