Chinese sword for comments

Lew · 1st June 2006, 01:51 AM

I would stay away from any sword coming out of Hong Kong.

Lew

Ferguson · 1st June 2006, 01:59 AM

I know nothing about Chinese swords. But I do know Ebay. The private bidders, and private auctions in his feedback raise a red flag to me. Good luck sir.

Steve

Yu-Ming Chang · 1st June 2006, 02:10 AM

Actually, this piece looks real to me. Most of the fittings (i.e. suspension bar, chape, etc) are new reproductions and poor ones at that. The guard and pommel look original (or at least old). However, the blade itself shows an higher carbon insert edge and is made of pattern welded steel with lots of slag inclusions evident in the pictures that is typical of late Qing work. (I have some thoughts about this dealer which I can share via PM, if anyone cares). I've some similar pieces in the past which, when etched had some very pretty patterns. This particular piece is pretty broken down and probably has seen a lot of abuse in it's day.

The questions is whether it was meant for use as opposed to many made for street performance or training by civilian martial artists. I have a few examples of dao that were pattern welded with insert edge AND differentially hardened with spines only a 1.5 mm thick at the forte. These according to Mr. Tom were pieces intended for performance. This piece in question looks pretty beefy, but given the amount of patina sanded off.....

Rick · 1st June 2006, 02:14 AM

Stephen ,
If you know nothing about Chinese swords then spend your first dollars on a book or two on the subject .

With every popular Chinese martial arts movie comes a dozen more sellers of "Antique Chinese Swords" which BTW are illegal to export from China .

If you must have a Chinese sword do not buy it from China ; instead use a reputable dealer from a country outside of China .

fearn · 1st June 2006, 04:45 AM

I've got a wushu-type modern jian and a couple of more upscale ones. My advice, based on the experience of buying those blades, is that it's a lot more fun to go to a shop and try out all the blades, and find one that fits you and feels good. I bought my favorite that way, and my two least favorite were bought because they were good deals.

Obviously, this isn't the right advice for someone who's collecting a genuine antique piece. On the other hand, it's a heck of a lot more fun, and you know that you'll enjoy what you buy, no matter what the price is.

F

IainN · 1st June 2006, 01:38 PM

That seller had a number of interesting pieces up. As mentioned all the scabbards were new, most of the hilts, and some of the guards were also new. Only one short jian actually looked like an okay piece to me with an original, or at least old, hilting job. The blade on this dao however looked decent but I dislike how all the pieces were finished. To many red flags to be out the money.

What concerned me was the other fakes the seller had listed. Also as mentioned there is the legal issue, the seller didn't mention if he had the proper papers and export license. I'm certainly not willing to paypal $3-400 to HK and then have customs nab it.

ariel · 1st June 2006, 04:43 PM

Knowing next to nothing about Chinese swords, I was also rather positively impressed by how "not pretty" the blade looked. The Chinese junk flooding the market often sports shiny "damascus" steel and looks as new and pristine as money can buy.
So, says I, aren't we dealing with a rare example of an honest Chinese Internet sword collector?
And then I recalled the new wave of Chinese junk: this time around they are counterfeiting not Japanese Katanas or Chinese Daos, but Russian 1881 shashkas ( I guess they noticed the prices these pieces fetch on e-bay....). The quality of those blades is rather close to what Nagawarrior shows here. I guess it took the buggers some time to realize that antique swords should look well...... old? worn out? ... to successfully fool idiots like myself.

I've been fooled not once and not twice by the e-bay bandits, and the main reason was that I WANTED a piece of obvious junk to turn out to be a " dream sleeper" (anyone else with similar experience?

).
But I firmly maintain one rule: every sword with Chinese connection is a fake until proven otherwise. And I resigned to let others do the prooving.

VANDOO · 1st June 2006, 05:33 PM

I WOULD NOT BUY FROM EBAY DEALERS FROM CHINA AS IT IS ILLEGAL TO SELL ANYTHING 100 YEARS OR OLDER. THE PENALTYS FOR GETTING CAUGHT SELLING REAL 100 YEAR OLD THINGS IN CHINA IS FATAL OR WORSE, SO IT IS VERY UNLIKELY THEY WOULD TAKE THE RISK. THE SALE OF REPLICAS AS OLD ANTIQUES IS ENCOURAGED AND COMMON SO THE CHANCE OF GETTING A GOOD OLD SWORD ARE ALMOST AS GOOD AS WINNING THE LOTTERY. SOME OF THE REPLICAS ARE WORTH HAVING DUE TO GOOD WORKMANSHIP BUT OTHER MORE RECENT ONES ARE VERY POORLY MADE. I USED TO BUY SOME THINGS FROM CHINA AS THEIR ART AND CRAFTSMANSHIP IS OF GOOD QUALITY AND WAS A GOOD VALUE ON EBAY A FEW YEARS AGO. BUT THEY STARTED CHARGEING A VERY HIGH SHIPPING AND HANDELING FEE ON EVERYTHING MAKEING THEM TOO EXPENSIVE SO I STOPPED BUYING ANYTHING FROM CHINA ON EBAY.

I WOULD FIND A GOOD DEALER OR ONLY BID ON EBAY ITEMS FROM CHINA COMING FROM COUNTRIES OTHER THAN CHINA. BUT BEWARE AS SOME DEALERS FROM OTHER COUNTRYS BUY IT FROM CHINA AND RESELL IT ON EBAY AND YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY SHIPPING FROM CHINA. . SO LOOK AT THE SELLERS FEEDBACK MAKE SURE THE PICTURES ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO SEE AND IF THEY LOOK LIKE THE SAME TYPE OF STUFF COMING OUT OF CHINA AVOID THEM. THE SAFEST WAY TO GET SOMETHING YOU LIKE IS TO BUY FROM A REPUTABLE DEALER. GOOD LUCK

1st June 2006, 02:14 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Please Stephen , If you know nothing about Chinese swords then spend your first dollars on a book or two on the subject . With every popular Chinese martial arts movie comes a dozen more sellers of "Antique Chinese Swords" which BTW are illegal to export from China . If you must have a Chinese sword do not buy it from China ; instead use a reputable dealer from a country outside of China .

1st June 2006, 01:51 AM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I would stay away from any sword coming out of Hong Kong. Lew

1st June 2006, 01:59 AM	#2
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	I know nothing about Chinese swords. But I do know Ebay. The private bidders, and private auctions in his feedback raise a red flag to me. Good luck sir. Steve

1st June 2006, 02:10 AM	#3
Yu-Ming Chang Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 21	Actually, this piece looks real to me. Most of the fittings (i.e. suspension bar, chape, etc) are new reproductions and poor ones at that. The guard and pommel look original (or at least old). However, the blade itself shows an higher carbon insert edge and is made of pattern welded steel with lots of slag inclusions evident in the pictures that is typical of late Qing work. (I have some thoughts about this dealer which I can share via PM, if anyone cares). I've some similar pieces in the past which, when etched had some very pretty patterns. This particular piece is pretty broken down and probably has seen a lot of abuse in it's day. The questions is whether it was meant for use as opposed to many made for street performance or training by civilian martial artists. I have a few examples of dao that were pattern welded with insert edge AND differentially hardened with spines only a 1.5 mm thick at the forte. These according to Mr. Tom were pieces intended for performance. This piece in question looks pretty beefy, but given the amount of patina sanded off.....

1st June 2006, 04:45 AM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I've got a wushu-type modern jian and a couple of more upscale ones. My advice, based on the experience of buying those blades, is that it's a lot more fun to go to a shop and try out all the blades, and find one that fits you and feels good. I bought my favorite that way, and my two least favorite were bought because they were good deals. Obviously, this isn't the right advice for someone who's collecting a genuine antique piece. On the other hand, it's a heck of a lot more fun, and you know that you'll enjoy what you buy, no matter what the price is. F

1st June 2006, 01:38 PM	#6
IainN Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 31	That seller had a number of interesting pieces up. As mentioned all the scabbards were new, most of the hilts, and some of the guards were also new. Only one short jian actually looked like an okay piece to me with an original, or at least old, hilting job. The blade on this dao however looked decent but I dislike how all the pieces were finished. To many red flags to be out the money. What concerned me was the other fakes the seller had listed. Also as mentioned there is the legal issue, the seller didn't mention if he had the proper papers and export license. I'm certainly not willing to paypal $3-400 to HK and then have customs nab it.

1st June 2006, 04:43 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Knowing next to nothing about Chinese swords, I was also rather positively impressed by how "not pretty" the blade looked. The Chinese junk flooding the market often sports shiny "damascus" steel and looks as new and pristine as money can buy. So, says I, aren't we dealing with a rare example of an honest Chinese Internet sword collector? And then I recalled the new wave of Chinese junk: this time around they are counterfeiting not Japanese Katanas or Chinese Daos, but Russian 1881 shashkas ( I guess they noticed the prices these pieces fetch on e-bay....). The quality of those blades is rather close to what Nagawarrior shows here. I guess it took the buggers some time to realize that antique swords should look well...... old? worn out? ... to successfully fool idiots like myself. I've been fooled not once and not twice by the e-bay bandits, and the main reason was that I WANTED a piece of obvious junk to turn out to be a " dream sleeper" (anyone else with similar experience? ). But I firmly maintain one rule: every sword with Chinese connection is a fake until proven otherwise. And I resigned to let others do the prooving.

1st June 2006, 05:33 PM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WOULD NOT BUY FROM EBAY DEALERS FROM CHINA AS IT IS ILLEGAL TO SELL ANYTHING 100 YEARS OR OLDER. THE PENALTYS FOR GETTING CAUGHT SELLING REAL 100 YEAR OLD THINGS IN CHINA IS FATAL OR WORSE, SO IT IS VERY UNLIKELY THEY WOULD TAKE THE RISK. THE SALE OF REPLICAS AS OLD ANTIQUES IS ENCOURAGED AND COMMON SO THE CHANCE OF GETTING A GOOD OLD SWORD ARE ALMOST AS GOOD AS WINNING THE LOTTERY. SOME OF THE REPLICAS ARE WORTH HAVING DUE TO GOOD WORKMANSHIP BUT OTHER MORE RECENT ONES ARE VERY POORLY MADE. I USED TO BUY SOME THINGS FROM CHINA AS THEIR ART AND CRAFTSMANSHIP IS OF GOOD QUALITY AND WAS A GOOD VALUE ON EBAY A FEW YEARS AGO. BUT THEY STARTED CHARGEING A VERY HIGH SHIPPING AND HANDELING FEE ON EVERYTHING MAKEING THEM TOO EXPENSIVE SO I STOPPED BUYING ANYTHING FROM CHINA ON EBAY. I WOULD FIND A GOOD DEALER OR ONLY BID ON EBAY ITEMS FROM CHINA COMING FROM COUNTRIES OTHER THAN CHINA. BUT BEWARE AS SOME DEALERS FROM OTHER COUNTRYS BUY IT FROM CHINA AND RESELL IT ON EBAY AND YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY SHIPPING FROM CHINA. . SO LOOK AT THE SELLERS FEEDBACK MAKE SURE THE PICTURES ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO SEE AND IF THEY LOOK LIKE THE SAME TYPE OF STUFF COMING OUT OF CHINA AVOID THEM. THE SAFEST WAY TO GET SOMETHING YOU LIKE IS TO BUY FROM A REPUTABLE DEALER. GOOD LUCK