Middle Eastern/North African Musket

kahnjar1 · 25th May 2021, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Stu,

I love it!

You are right most of these features are Algerians.

The copy??? of English lock is something that you can see on the coast, in Northern Morocco and Tunisia.

The ramrod running directy under the barrel without stock is a Tunisian feature.

Because of that and the lock, I think your gun is from the border between Algeria and Tunisa (modern/ colonial borders anyway...)

I was thinking Tunisia/Algeria but the European lock threw me off a bit.. This gun was one of two very similar offered at the auction but the other had been originally a Miquelet I think. Here is a pic of the lock area of the other gun, As you can see it has a similar flintlock to mine but at some stage there has been a different lock fitted judging by the damage and ill fitting. Also the top jaw of the cock is missing and there was no rammer. Bit of a mess really.....As a matter of interest the lock shown here has the word "Marseilles" engraved below the hammer.
Stu

Kubur · 25th May 2021, 01:04 PM

Marseilles was a port and export center for Levantine locks from North Africa to Turkey.

eftihis · 25th May 2021, 02:11 PM

This has many similarities and also a european looking lock.

kahnjar1 · 25th May 2021, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eftihis

This has many similarities and also a european looking lock.

Hi Eftihis,
Yes I totally agree. Your gun could well be the twin to the one I have. What is you opinion as to origin of the one you show?
Stu

eftihis · 26th May 2021, 05:07 PM

Well, for me it is "North African" i cannot pinpoint it more precisely. Also the are was called Barbary and the current state borders did not exist in the past. I was told, because of its long barell with a small caliber that it was made for duck hunting.

David R · 26th May 2021, 08:21 PM

For duck hunting I would have thought you would use a large bore shotgun, perhaps Muslim practice was different at that time.

kahnjar1 · 26th May 2021, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eftihis

Well, for me it is "North African" i cannot pinpoint it more precisely. Also the are was called Barbary and the current state borders did not exist in the past. I was told, because of its long barell with a small caliber that it was made for duck hunting.

I agree with the North African atribution, but not sure about the duck hunting. I would perhaps suggest ground game if it is indeed meant as a sporting gun, rather than for combat.
Stu

rickystl · 27th May 2021, 05:44 PM

Hi Stu

Nice find. I agree with the Algerian origins. The stock architecture and long, tapered octagon barrel are common to other Algerian long guns. (Although I've seen a couple with octagon to round barrels). And Eftihis's gun looks like a brother to yours.
The half-stock is interesting. The other Algerian guns with the miquelet locks are typically full stocks - although the length of their forearms only travel about 2/3 rds. the distance to the muzzle. And the ramrods are wood. I always thought it would be easy to damage a wood ramrod without the fore end of the stock not traveling full length, or with some other support at the muzzle. But that's how they were built.
The two examples shown here appear to have been made as half-stocks, versus a repair from a broken fore end. Yes, maybe a blend of Algerian and Tunisian styles.
I've seen this style before with the flintlock in place of the common Algerian miquelet lock. A different variation from a different gun shop to suite a local taste I guess.
Here is one I have, although in poor condition as I bought it as a "parts" gun.
The same general stock design. But this one has the so-called 2/3rds. length stock. Just another small variation.

Rick

25th May 2021, 01:04 PM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Marseilles was a port and export center for Levantine locks from North Africa to Turkey. Attached Images

25th May 2021, 02:11 PM	#3
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	This has many similarities and also a european looking lock. Attached Images

26th May 2021, 05:07 PM	#5
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	Well, for me it is "North African" i cannot pinpoint it more precisely. Also the are was called Barbary and the current state borders did not exist in the past. I was told, because of its long barell with a small caliber that it was made for duck hunting.

26th May 2021, 08:21 PM	#6
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,119	For duck hunting I would have thought you would use a large bore shotgun, perhaps Muslim practice was different at that time.

27th May 2021, 05:44 PM	#8
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Hi Stu Nice find. I agree with the Algerian origins. The stock architecture and long, tapered octagon barrel are common to other Algerian long guns. (Although I've seen a couple with octagon to round barrels). And Eftihis's gun looks like a brother to yours. The half-stock is interesting. The other Algerian guns with the miquelet locks are typically full stocks - although the length of their forearms only travel about 2/3 rds. the distance to the muzzle. And the ramrods are wood. I always thought it would be easy to damage a wood ramrod without the fore end of the stock not traveling full length, or with some other support at the muzzle. But that's how they were built. The two examples shown here appear to have been made as half-stocks, versus a repair from a broken fore end. Yes, maybe a blend of Algerian and Tunisian styles. I've seen this style before with the flintlock in place of the common Algerian miquelet lock. A different variation from a different gun shop to suite a local taste I guess. Here is one I have, although in poor condition as I bought it as a "parts" gun. The same general stock design. But this one has the so-called 2/3rds. length stock. Just another small variation. Rick