Capt. Broke's Sword

Jim McDougall · 16th May 2021, 11:36 PM

Thank you CC, great artwork!!
It seems reasonable that the strategy in gunnery would be keyed toward the masts and rigging of the opposing ship, thus disabling her from any tactical maneuvering. It has not seemed to me that the objective was to sink the opposing vessel (except perhaps in larger pitched battles to remove firepower) so disabling would be primary.

The boarding and close contact were of course the defining moments in the final conflict, and it seems there were often Marines and other musket men on board to open fire on the other ranks on the opposing vessel. The physical contact in boarding melee must have been ghastly.

Bob A · 17th May 2021, 01:56 AM

Sharpshooters in crow's nests did for Admiral Nelson, and many others as well. Deck cannons loaded with grapeshot did great slaughter to boarding parties.

In addition to the desperate fight to survive, the winning crews of these battles were awarded prize money, based on the value of the capture, which was shared by the crew, and was a strong disincentive to sink the enemy, and a strong motivator to do battle. A morning's hard work at close quarters could fetch a far fatter purse than a sailor would receive from His Majesty's exchequer per diem.

Those of you who might be interested in the Napoleonic Wars from a naval perspective might want to read Patrick O'Brian's wonderful historical novels covering the period. They have been called the greatest historical novels ever written - in English at any rate. Highly recommended. The first in the series is entitled Master and Commander.

Rick · 17th May 2021, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob A

Sharpshooters in crow's nests did for Admiral Nelson, and many others as well. Deck cannons loaded with grapeshot did great slaughter to boarding parties.

In addition to the desperate fight to survive, the winning crews of these battles were awarded prize money, based on the value of the capture, which was shared by the crew, and was a strong disincentive to sink the enemy, and a strong motivator to do battle. A morning's hard work at close quarters could fetch a far fatter purse than a sailor would receive from His Majesty's exchequer per diem.

Those of you who might be interested in the Napoleonic Wars from a naval perspective might want to read Patrick O'Brian's wonderful historical novels covering the period. They have been called the greatest historical novels ever written - in English at any rate. Highly recommended. The first in the series is entitled Master and Commander.

Bob, I shed real tears when I learned of O'Brian's death. I have read all his novels and his research was impeccable. No one so far has come near to reaching his level of talent in this genre. The battle of Shannon and Chesapeake is described near the end of The Fortune of War.

Rick · 17th May 2021, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you CC, great artwork!!
It seems reasonable that the strategy in gunnery would be keyed toward the masts and rigging of the opposing ship, thus disabling her from any tactical maneuvering. It has not seemed to me that the objective was to sink the opposing vessel (except perhaps in larger pitched battles to remove firepower) so disabling would be primary.

The boarding and close contact were of course the defining moments in the final conflict, and it seems there were often Marines and other musket men on board to open fire on the other ranks on the opposing vessel. The physical contact in boarding melee must have been ghastly.

Broke won the contest with Chesapeake by clearing her decks with grape. It was written that when Chesapeake was boarded the waist and quarterdeck were virtually cleared of men. By that time Lawrence and all four of his lieutenants were out of action with no one of rank in command. I believe that also by that time Chesapeake's helm had been shot away and her rudder had been disabled. Aiming high to disable rig was one approach; another is to sweep the decks and knock out the guns, crew and officers.

Jim McDougall · 17th May 2021, 05:17 AM

Bob and Rick, thank you so much for these insights. I am admittedly not very well versed in naval warfare and history, but it is truly fascinating to see these perspectives. I think I see another facet to my obsessions with history brewing

M ELEY · 17th May 2021, 05:14 PM

Very much agreed! The sweeping of the deck with cannons was also a maneuver that pirates used in desparation (as opposed to just getting their prey to surrender). When the Rover was attacked by Blackbeard's crew, they 'scrafed' the deck with shot. This time, however, Lt. Maynard played Teach's game and hid his remaining crew below beck. When Blackbeard's vessel approached, he saw the carnage and no resistance, so cried out for his crew to board the supposedly defeated ship. Once the sea dogs were on deck, Maynard's soldiers and sailors swarmed out of the hold to confront the pirate menace hand-to-hand. The rest, as they say, is history...

David R · 17th May 2021, 10:44 PM

Great days, great Commanders and wonderful stories. A quote I once heard from a knowledgeable friend, as coming from the French, was that the British "built their warships by the mile and cut them off as needed".
On another note, one third of the British warships at Trafalgar were built in India and the crews were in proportion. Our secret weapon was Indian manufacturers and finance, without them we may have lost!

Rick · 17th May 2021, 11:47 PM

Also, a fair amount of captured vessels from France and Spain ended up being bought into the RN; Chesapeake was also bought into the RN after her capture.

Jim McDougall · 18th May 2021, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R

Great days, great Commanders and wonderful stories. A quote I once heard from a knowledgeable friend, as coming from the French, was that the British "built their warships by the mile and cut them off as needed".
On another note, one third of the British warships at Trafalgar were built in India and the crews were in proportion. Our secret weapon was Indian manufacturers and finance, without them we may have lost!

Wow! David, now thats interesting!!! I had no idea that India built those, but they did seem to have some pretty amazing vessels.
These were from the Malabar coast in India right? Mahrattas?

David R · 19th May 2021, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Wow! David, now thats interesting!!! I had no idea that India built those, but they did seem to have some pretty amazing vessels.
These were from the Malabar coast in India right? Mahrattas?

They were one to one copies of the standard British warships. The story goes that the RN sailed a three decker into one of the main shipbuilding centres and invited quotes. After a thorough investigation that quote was less than half what it would cost to build in Britain, and the deal was on!

https://2ndlook.wordpress.com/2010/1...-british-navy/

Jim McDougall · 18th May 2021, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Very much agreed! The sweeping of the deck with cannons was also a maneuver that pirates used in desparation (as opposed to just getting their prey to surrender). When the Rover was attacked by Blackbeard's crew, they 'scrafed' the deck with shot. This time, however, Lt. Maynard played Teach's game and hid his remaining crew below beck. When Blackbeard's vessel approached, he saw the carnage and no resistance, so cried out for his crew to board the supposedly defeated ship. Once the sea dogs were on deck, Maynard's soldiers and sailors swarmed out of the hold to confront the pirate menace hand-to-hand. The rest, as they say, is history...

Indeed it was! a great ploy!!! enter as well the Highlander and his basket hilt, who ended the great Blackbeard !
I always wondered if certain gun crews and guns were designated to grape shot and if others were to the rigging shots.......was this kind of selective tactics in place in an aligned battle between vessels?

Bob A · 18th May 2021, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Indeed it was! a great ploy!!! enter as well the Highlander and his basket hilt, who ended the great Blackbeard !
I always wondered if certain gun crews and guns were designated to grape shot and if others were to the rigging shots.......was this kind of selective tactics in place in an aligned battle between vessels?

I would hazard a guess that chain and bar shot would have been used to incapacitate an opponents vessel through wrecking the rigging; loading grape would make sense as the boarding vessel approached, as last-ditch anti-personnel weaponry.

Not having been there, I'm just winging it here. There would be sufficient standardisation of bore to facilitate this.

If I recall correctly, not having read O'brian in a decade or so, carronades were used in various conformations in close-contact inter-ship action.

Here's a Wiki link to carronade:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carronade

Since O'Brian is on the table, here's a link to a site mapping the various voyages in the saga:
http://www.cannonade.net/

16th May 2021, 11:36 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,627	Thank you CC, great artwork!! It seems reasonable that the strategy in gunnery would be keyed toward the masts and rigging of the opposing ship, thus disabling her from any tactical maneuvering. It has not seemed to me that the objective was to sink the opposing vessel (except perhaps in larger pitched battles to remove firepower) so disabling would be primary. The boarding and close contact were of course the defining moments in the final conflict, and it seems there were often Marines and other musket men on board to open fire on the other ranks on the opposing vessel. The physical contact in boarding melee must have been ghastly.

17th May 2021, 01:56 AM	#2
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 445	Sharpshooters in crow's nests did for Admiral Nelson, and many others as well. Deck cannons loaded with grapeshot did great slaughter to boarding parties. In addition to the desperate fight to survive, the winning crews of these battles were awarded prize money, based on the value of the capture, which was shared by the crew, and was a strong disincentive to sink the enemy, and a strong motivator to do battle. A morning's hard work at close quarters could fetch a far fatter purse than a sailor would receive from His Majesty's exchequer per diem. Those of you who might be interested in the Napoleonic Wars from a naval perspective might want to read Patrick O'Brian's wonderful historical novels covering the period. They have been called the greatest historical novels ever written - in English at any rate. Highly recommended. The first in the series is entitled Master and Commander.

17th May 2021, 05:17 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,627	Bob and Rick, thank you so much for these insights. I am admittedly not very well versed in naval warfare and history, but it is truly fascinating to see these perspectives. I think I see another facet to my obsessions with history brewing

17th May 2021, 05:14 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,201	Very much agreed! The sweeping of the deck with cannons was also a maneuver that pirates used in desparation (as opposed to just getting their prey to surrender). When the Rover was attacked by Blackbeard's crew, they 'scrafed' the deck with shot. This time, however, Lt. Maynard played Teach's game and hid his remaining crew below beck. When Blackbeard's vessel approached, he saw the carnage and no resistance, so cried out for his crew to board the supposedly defeated ship. Once the sea dogs were on deck, Maynard's soldiers and sailors swarmed out of the hold to confront the pirate menace hand-to-hand. The rest, as they say, is history...

17th May 2021, 10:44 PM	#7
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,133	Great days, great Commanders and wonderful stories. A quote I once heard from a knowledgeable friend, as coming from the French, was that the British "built their warships by the mile and cut them off as needed". On another note, one third of the British warships at Trafalgar were built in India and the crews were in proportion. Our secret weapon was Indian manufacturers and finance, without them we may have lost!

17th May 2021, 11:47 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,374	Also, a fair amount of captured vessels from France and Spain ended up being bought into the RN; Chesapeake was also bought into the RN after her capture.