Koummya and Janbiya

mariusgmioc · 16th March 2021, 04:31 PM

To me, all three Koummyas look rather low end touristy 20th century.

More about Koummyas you can find at the link below:

http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/koummya/index.html

The Jambiya does not appear to be ethnographically specific/traditional and it is definitely not Omani or Yemeni, in my opinion. The workmanship doesn't appear to be neither Indian or Pakistani but more like African.

Sajen · 16th March 2021, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

To me, all three Koummyas look rather low end touristy 20th century.

Hello Marius,

The one in the middle is definitely old/antique, have a look to the holes where the rings let the traces of long time use.

Regards,
Detlef

Kubur · 16th March 2021, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Marius,

The one in the middle is definitely old/antique, have a look to the holes where the rings let the traces of long time use.

Regards,
Detlef

I agree, but the scabbard only, not the dagger.
The scabbard is from the 19th and the dagger from the mid or late 20th c like the others.

mariusgmioc · 16th March 2021, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Marius,

The one in the middle is definitely old/antique, have a look to the holes where the rings let the traces of long time use.

Regards,
Detlef

Hola Detlef,

I somehow overlooked the scabbards.

Indeed, the scabbard of the middle one has some significant wear but that doesn't necessarily make it old. The metal of the scabbard is brass and tin alloy, which are soft metals, and if it was mounted on steel rings one may get this wear after a few months of wearing.

Anyhow, the blade appears to be flat, cut & filed from sheet/band stock.

Sajen · 16th March 2021, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Hola Detlef,

I somehow overlooked the scabbards.

Indeed, the scabbard of the middle one has some significant wear but that doesn't necessarily make it old. The metal of the scabbard is brass and tin alloy, which are soft metals, and if it was mounted on steel rings one may get this wear after a few months of wearing.

Anyhow, the blade appears to be flat, cut & filed from sheet/band stock.

Hello Marius,

I guess the scabbard is from brass and silver, such a wear don't come from a few month of wearing and I am with Kubur that the scabbard is 19th century but you and Kubur could by correct by the blade. But I would like to see better pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

Kubur · 16th March 2021, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

I guess the scabbard is from brass and silver,
Regards,
Detlef

Again Detlef is correct brass on one side and brass covered with silver sheet on the other.

Asomer, can you please put the dagger from the left side in the scabbard in the middle? I have the feeling that there is a missmatch...

mariusgmioc · 17th March 2021, 07:28 AM

Often tin alloys are very difficult to distinguish from silver even at close inspection. Very often it is impossible to say for sure that it is silver based only on a low quality photo.

However, there are very clear signs (see photo) we are not talking about sheet silver, but about tin alloy (more precisely solder) applied crudely in molten state directly on the brass scabbard. And what appears to be surface wear is in fact the result of the poorly reproduced shapes of the brass below and subsequent abrasive cleaning.

But maybe ASomer can tell us more precisely what it is?

Kubur · 17th March 2021, 08:55 AM

Hi Marius,

You have very good eyes, it was badly restored with lead.
But I guarantee you that this type of koummya have a silver sheat on one side.

Sajen · 17th March 2021, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Often tin alloys are very difficult to distinguish from silver even at close inspection. Very often it is impossible to say for sure that it is silver based only on a low quality photo.

I own a 19th century koummya, brass scabbard with very worn silver accents in front, the silver plating is attached on a layer tin or similar metal. The same effect you can notice by the koummya in question. I guess it was done to let the silver look thicker. A test would show that in up is silver where it is not worn, believe me, it gets dark like I know it only from silver. But you are correct, under the silver is something similar to tin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

But maybe ASomer can tell us more precisely what it is?

Yes, this would be great!

Regards,
Detlef

16th March 2021, 04:31 PM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	To me, all three Koummyas look rather low end touristy 20th century. More about Koummyas you can find at the link below: http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/koummya/index.html The Jambiya does not appear to be ethnographically specific/traditional and it is definitely not Omani or Yemeni, in my opinion. The workmanship doesn't appear to be neither Indian or Pakistani but more like African. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 16th March 2021 at 04:49 PM.

17th March 2021, 07:28 AM	#7
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Often tin alloys are very difficult to distinguish from silver even at close inspection. Very often it is impossible to say for sure that it is silver based only on a low quality photo. However, there are very clear signs (see photo) we are not talking about sheet silver, but about tin alloy (more precisely solder) applied crudely in molten state directly on the brass scabbard. And what appears to be surface wear is in fact the result of the poorly reproduced shapes of the brass below and subsequent abrasive cleaning. But maybe ASomer can tell us more precisely what it is? Attached Images Last edited by mariusgmioc; 17th March 2021 at 09:17 AM.

17th March 2021, 08:55 AM	#8
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Marius, You have very good eyes, it was badly restored with lead. But I guarantee you that this type of koummya have a silver sheat on one side.