Question on usage of the 'mel puttah bemoh'

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Even the author of the Nujum al Ulum, suggests the term 'bank' for this weapon, but then notes the disparity of the word also used for a kind of dagger.
He says further many of the names of the weapons are known of course to the Indians, but not to him.

Two different words that sound the same in one language, in another language will be spelled similar. But these are two different words.

The author of the treatise knew what he was writing. Treatise on astrology. About dagger "bank" it is not his fantasy, I think.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Mercenary

Two different words that sound the same in one language, in another language will be spelled similar. But these are two different words.

The author of the treatise knew what he was writing. Treatise on astrology. About dagger "bank" it is not his fantasy, I think.

Thank you Mercenary, very well explained and all points well taken. There are many instances of words written the same or pronounced the same, which may have entirely different meanings when taken out of context.
I think Robert Elgood was most prudent in pointing out in his glossary ("Hindu Arms and Ritual") that the term 'mel puttah bemoh' was may have not been the proper term in local parlance, but noted it more as a point of reference.

Wayne, thank you for the illustrations! As always, especally in this case, a picture is indeed worth a thousand words!!!

Most collectors strive for concise and exact categoric descriptions, and this is perhaps the reason behind the plethora of 'collectors term' that plague the serious study of ethnographic arms. As you well point out, 'it is not quite so simple'.It seems however that while scholars in these studies of course seek more accurate and proper terminology, collectors and the general populace go for a term that serves collectively in their own vernacular.

In following your use of analogy, take for instance the case of the Sudanese 'kaskara' broadsword. Years ago studying these I was surprised when I discovered that in virtually the entirety of regions using these swords, this term was NEVER used to describe it, only (as in many Arabic speaking areas, the word sa'if was used). Using that term to speak to locals was pretty much useless. Years later we found that the term was from tribal dialect in regions west of Sudan, and in my opinion likely entered the collectors lexicon with Sir Richard Burton (a linguist, "Book of the Sword", 1884) to describe these.

Simiilar dilemma occurred with the 'katar' situation, which seems to be generally held that Egerton (1885) transposed the term from another dagger to the transverse grip 'jamadhar' (as per Pant, 1980), thus, again, entering the collectors lexicon accordingly. While most of us know the term is technically incorrect, the the sake of expediency, we use 'katar' in discussion and descriptions.

In that convention, it seems that mel puttah bemoh serves for the same purpose, while more etymologically and linguistically proper term will hopefully be added to the scholarly literature as research develops into conclusions.

Wayne, thank you for the excellent illustrations! As said, a picture is worth a thousand words, especially in these kinds of situations!!

[kronckew]

You are welcome, Jim. I note in Mercenary's photo a pair of these two handed weapons that have a snakelike double finger guard, each 'wiggle' protecting a section of grip below the corresponding disk guard, I'm assuming for parrying. (And an elephant proboscis 'hook' on the pommels)

Just for stupidity, Forged in Fire, series 5, episode 11 'Indian two handed sword' features these with spherical 'guards' being abused in time honoured silly destructive tests, including the "it's got a round grip - you lose because I didn't know how to use it like that" "Indexing" blackmark. FIF, you have not made the cut and you must leave the forge, please turn in your weapons.

[drakharios]

Thanks for the replies! Mercenary, what is the proper name for this sword in the Deccan? Bank?

And yes, I was thinking of having it used in the way of a zweihander. Looking at the hilt design, I'm thinking this is an improvement over the hilt design of a zweihander, you can do a 'choke' grip (I don't know the proper HEMA term) well with it without having to grip the blade because the haft is so long you don't effectively shorten the weapon as much.

[Nihl]

Adding my 2 cents here to this little linguistics discussion; while it might not be the correct term for the sword form itself, it's worth noting that the "puttah" in "mel puttah bemoh" is likely a phonetic spelling of the hindi/sanskrit word "patta", or long straight leaf blade (leaf blade as in a plain blade of grass, not the more curvaceous tree leaf shape more commonly thought of for swords). Indeed, this is the same term that is also used to refer to the more common gauntlet sword, as, like the MPB, its overall profile is relatively uniform, symmetrical, and straight (like a blade of grass is). This word, though I could be mistaken, is also likely the root of the "pattani" in "pattani jamdadu", an old and probably just as dubious term used to refer to (mostly south indian) katars that have long, straight blades.

Of course what "mel" and "bemoh" likely mean is all up in the air for me . While it's possible that for "bemoh", like with "puttah", the open vowel at the end of the word has been transliterated with an extra h to indicate aspiration/emphasis (making the third word "bemo"), there's no real reason as to why this would have to be the case.

Use-wise, I'd have to imagine they'd be used as some sort of spear/sword hybrid. That is to say with the handle likely gripped in spear fashion, but, as with most indian weapons, probably used to cut with more than thrust, especially with such a long blade.