African sword, Unusual Handle, Akokonan? or?

[JoeCanada42]

Thanks again Jim , I like the idea of the occurrence of an atavistically inspired weapon.
Thanks for all the great info and photos also . I find the large round form in the center of the grip of some Celtic swords interesting.
maybe Von daniken and aliens don't need to be invoked.
I don't think we know that much anthropologically about the Celts
weren't there Celtic red hair mummies in Asia?
perhaps maybe in History cultures had a lot more dispersal and interaction.
Didn't the domestic chicken come from the east. and Europe was the last place to get chicken farming. following my interest in the rooster/chicken as the inspiration for weapons, I have found some weapons from India , And some from china.
I will post 2 photos soon, 1 sword has a symbol on the scabbard I am curious about.
also about my sword I would like to mention it is also essentially a two handed sword. I will try to get a picture also, I find the pictures say more than words. the sword design being symmetrical also makes it easy to change hands, as the grip is always facing the right way. the point of balance of the sword is 6 inches forward from the bottom grip. I find the bottom grip quite comfortable. I think this is a very functional design, and perhaps the handle may be older than the blade.

[JoeCanada42]

I want to share some of my African research before I move on to the east.
I found the deity Shango of interest as he is associated with the rooster and lightning. I also find the rooster itself mentioned as a deity that shoots lightning. and I find lightning associated with meteorites. so called lightning iron.
I think Africa would have a greater occurrence of meteorites then most other locations. I also had notes somewhere that the Gibeon meteorite was used to make samurai swords in china circa 1838 by Yoshido.
Also Shango is said to have been a human king who burned down his own palace for various reasons... due to his lightning.
I find some similarity between my sword handle and this shango lightning symbol I will post below. Also i will post some Oshe wands, I do think the rooster influence and inspiration has much older origin than shango.

[JoeCanada42]

I found weapons from India with the rooster but they are for sale so I wont post them.
Currently I am looking at Chinese swords for any influence of the rooster. I will post 4 pictures, one is a two handed bronze age iron sword with a unique handle, not similar, but it kind of shows the evolution of the handle shapes I think.
the sword with the antenna handle was called a Balkan celt sword, the third sword is an old Chinese sword with simply a similar blade shape, the forth and fifth photos are Jian swords, and I am very curious about the cut out symbol motifs wich vary between swords. Some Jian swords have the motif which looks very like the akoko nan. I am looking to find a Jian with symbol exactly like the akokonan to share I saw one on a YouTube video about a Ming sword.

[JoeCanada42]

I think the Jian sword is associated with a bird the Jian, which has interesting myth, it is a bird that has one wing and one eye and needs to find its mate in order to fly.

[JoeCanada42]

also I have to post this.. Abraxas... it is rooster related,, whats he holding? just curiously similar shapes and form in general. I dont know of any connection yet, but. it gets me thinking,

[JoeCanada42]

never mind i actually just answered my own question.
curious it also resemble most double headed eagles such as in masonry or heraldry .

[JoeCanada42]

the two headed bird is now flying in the air (multiples small swirls)

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by JoeCanada42

Thanks again Jim , I like the idea of the occurrence of an atavistically inspired weapon.
Thanks for all the great info and photos also . I find the large round form in the center of the grip of some Celtic swords interesting.
maybe Von daniken and aliens don't need to be invoked.
I don't think we know that much anthropologically about the Celts
weren't there Celtic red hair mummies in Asia?
perhaps maybe in History cultures had a lot more dispersal and interaction.
Didn't the domestic chicken come from the east. and Europe was the last place to get chicken farming. following my interest in the rooster/chicken as the inspiration for weapons, I have found some weapons from India , And some from china.
I will post 2 photos soon, 1 sword has a symbol on the scabbard I am curious about.
also about my sword I would like to mention it is also essentially a two handed sword. I will try to get a picture also, I find the pictures say more than words. the sword design being symmetrical also makes it easy to change hands, as the grip is always facing the right way. the point of balance of the sword is 6 inches forward from the bottom grip. I find the bottom grip quite comfortable. I think this is a very functional design, and perhaps the handle may be older than the blade.

Atavistic designs in edged weapons is well known in many cultures who called on iconographic depictions to bring their hereditary weapons into their present and traditions.

The reference to the mummies would be the Caucasian remains found surprisingly in Chinese Turkestan in Urumchi in the 1980s. Their exact origin is unclear but it was certainly far west into the 'Celtic' sphere. A lot of complex and highly debated anthropology there, but the key question with the 'Urumchi' mummies was what in the world were these Caucasians doing that far east several thousand years ago?

[ariel]

Aren’t we overthinking it a bit?

Sub-Saharan African weapons by and large sacrificed their functionality in favor of “ whimsicality”. I can recall very few examples of truly functional serious weapons coming from that area. Zulu Iklwa, swords of Congolese Shi, Masai Seme and some fighting examples of Benin Hwi come to mind. Sure, one could inflict some damage with any fancily formed piece of metal, but when push came to shove, British machete was the preferred choice. Somehow because of that I have never gotten into African weapons.

Even Indians, with their inexhaustible pantheons of gods, their avatars and vahanas were serious about their weapons as weapons first and foremost.

As Tuco used to say, ” If you want to shoot, shoot. Don’t talk”

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ariel

Aren’t we overthinking it a bit?

Sub-Saharan African weapons by and large sacrificed their functionality in favor of “ whimsicality”. I can recall very few examples of truly functional serious weapons coming from that area. Zulu Iklwa, swords of Congolese Shi, Masai Seme and some fighting examples of Benin Hwi come to mind. Sure, one could inflict some damage with any fancily formed piece of metal, but when push came to shove, British machete was the preferred choice. Somehow because of that I have never gotten into African weapons.

Even Indians, with their inexhaustible pantheons of gods, their avatars and vahanas were serious about their weapons as weapons first and foremost.

As Tuco used to say, ” If you want to shoot, shoot. Don’t talk”

Point well noted, but actually not necessarily 'over' thinking, as we have been focused on the symbolism of the sword in the opening post of the thread, and possible similarities with other examples.

Naturally there were many distinct fighting forms throughout the African continent, including the almost fancifully styled 'throwing knives', whose actual use in battle of has always been subject for debate. The use of these among others in other manner, such as currency is fascinating. When factoring in the many colonial additions of swords and machetes to the arsenal, it becomes dramatically obvious that the sword was a well recognized weapon for battle throughout the tribal cultures of Africa.

Good analogy on the weapons of India, as the metaphysical properties inherently imbued in them are profoundly regarded, and the many forms actually used are powerfully effective in warfare. Still, highly embellished versions used ceremonially or ritually become notably impaired in combat encumbered by decorative elements.

Thus, in effect we are discussing a rather unique realm in the huge scope of edged weapons in Africa,in this case those intended as symbolic icons or votive elements in ceremony and ritual, rather than those intended for actual combat.

Well used and dramatic tag line from the movie "Desperado"

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Well used and dramatic tag line from the movie "Desperado"

Sorry Jim..
This is from “The good, the bad and the ugly”.
Tuco ( “The ugly”) was taking a bath when his sworn enemy barged in and started loudly telling Tuco why he would be killed in a moment. Tucco pulls his hand with a gun from soapy and dirty water and shoots the attacker. Then, the immortal piece of wisdom.

Love this movie......

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ariel

Sorry Jim..
This is from “The good, the bad and the ugly”.
Tuco ( “The ugly”) was taking a bath when his sworn enemy barged in and started loudly telling Tuco why he would be killed in a moment. Tucco pulls his hand with a gun from soapy and dirty water and shoots the attacker. Then, the immortal piece of wisdom.

Love this movie......

Ahah!!! I was thinking of Buco, in Desperado, a Tarentino western as opposed to Eastwood GBU is a classic!!! This kinda stuff is sorta 'Gospel' here in Texas !

[JoeCanada42]

I have settled upon a suitable name for this sword.
The Black Hen
I also picked up a Jian recently that has a dragon on the blade,
I think ill call it red dragon.