Ode to the Sword

MABAGANI · 26th May 2006, 05:45 PM

no paranoia
mabagani was present
second from the left

visayan cutting
not many kris and barung
on this forum meet

Andrew · 26th May 2006, 05:55 PM

sharp and pointy things

shared and enjoyed by all

good times cherished

RSWORD · 26th May 2006, 09:40 PM

A great time was had by all
But tell tell
How many wings and pitchers of beer
was consumed at the local Hooters

A. G. Maisey · 26th May 2006, 09:57 PM

Haiku is originally a Japanese form.

In the Japanese haiku the form is as nechesh advises: 5-7-5

However, when English language poets started to write haiku about 50 years ago, it was found that much more could be said in 17 syllables of English, than in 17 syllables of Japanese, so almost immediately the English language form of the haiku became shorter.

Not only did it become shorter, but some of the rules that apply to the writing of haiku in Japanese were thrown out the door, as it was found to be impossible or impractical to apply all those rules in the English language, and within the associated framework of thought used by English language speakers.

English language poets experimented with various forms, including traditional English language poetic forms, and some translators of Japanese haiku even went to a four line form, similar to the English quatrain.

I believe the current position with the haiku in English is that syllable number and form is accepted as being fairly flexible.

Certainly the Japanese traditional 5-7-5 form is used, and I think perhaps James Kirkup might be accepted as the leading exponent of this form, however, there is considerable support for other forms as well.

The major requirement of haiku whether it be in Japanese or in any other language is accepted as being the use of simple, colloquial words, used sparsely, to create an image that is constructed in a way that will create other images.

It is a catalyst intended to begin a train of thought.

Japanese is a very flexible language as regards word order, but in English we do not have this same flexibility, so some English language authorities on the haiku favour a 4-5-4 syllable form, others, a 3-4-3 form, others a 3-5-3 form.

Then there is the factor of stress in the spoken word, which can make a haiku written in American English not really viable in spoken British English.

However, all this aside, today in English language haiku there are two major styles:- one style maintains a rigid 5-7-5 form, the other freeform style seeks maximum impact from minimal expression.In other words, as few words as possible to achieve as great an effect as possible, with a three line form , and syllables structured around rhythm rather than rigidity.

steel whispers
soft the gentle breeze
one last breathe

too obscure?

how about:-

crimson snow
the springtime met by
one alone

BSMStar · 26th May 2006, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

A great time was had by all
But tell tell
How many wings and pitchers of beer
was consumed at the local Hooters

We can not say... but now you know why our faces are marked out.

Rick · 26th May 2006, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSMStar

We can not say... but now you know why our faces are marked out.

BEER GOGGLES !!

nechesh · 27th May 2006, 12:28 AM

Alan, you are right of course. And i have heard it suggested that we perhaps should be using 3-5-3 or even 2-3-2 instead of the usual 17 syllables . But then, i've always been a bit long winded.

sharp edges
wicked cuts abound
avenge me

drdavid · 27th May 2006, 12:56 AM

Important too to remember that Haiku masters loved word games and puns

With soft arc
From folded steel
A past life

DrD

26th May 2006, 05:45 PM	#1
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	no paranoia mabagani was present second from the left visayan cutting not many kris and barung on this forum meet

26th May 2006, 05:55 PM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	sharp and pointy things shared and enjoyed by all good times cherished

26th May 2006, 09:40 PM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,086	A great time was had by all But tell tell How many wings and pitchers of beer was consumed at the local Hooters

26th May 2006, 09:57 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Haiku is originally a Japanese form. In the Japanese haiku the form is as nechesh advises: 5-7-5 However, when English language poets started to write haiku about 50 years ago, it was found that much more could be said in 17 syllables of English, than in 17 syllables of Japanese, so almost immediately the English language form of the haiku became shorter. Not only did it become shorter, but some of the rules that apply to the writing of haiku in Japanese were thrown out the door, as it was found to be impossible or impractical to apply all those rules in the English language, and within the associated framework of thought used by English language speakers. English language poets experimented with various forms, including traditional English language poetic forms, and some translators of Japanese haiku even went to a four line form, similar to the English quatrain. I believe the current position with the haiku in English is that syllable number and form is accepted as being fairly flexible. Certainly the Japanese traditional 5-7-5 form is used, and I think perhaps James Kirkup might be accepted as the leading exponent of this form, however, there is considerable support for other forms as well. The major requirement of haiku whether it be in Japanese or in any other language is accepted as being the use of simple, colloquial words, used sparsely, to create an image that is constructed in a way that will create other images. It is a catalyst intended to begin a train of thought. Japanese is a very flexible language as regards word order, but in English we do not have this same flexibility, so some English language authorities on the haiku favour a 4-5-4 syllable form, others, a 3-4-3 form, others a 3-5-3 form. Then there is the factor of stress in the spoken word, which can make a haiku written in American English not really viable in spoken British English. However, all this aside, today in English language haiku there are two major styles:- one style maintains a rigid 5-7-5 form, the other freeform style seeks maximum impact from minimal expression.In other words, as few words as possible to achieve as great an effect as possible, with a three line form , and syllables structured around rhythm rather than rigidity. steel whispers soft the gentle breeze one last breathe too obscure? how about:- crimson snow the springtime met by one alone

27th May 2006, 12:28 AM	#7
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Alan, you are right of course. And i have heard it suggested that we perhaps should be using 3-5-3 or even 2-3-2 instead of the usual 17 syllables . But then, i've always been a bit long winded. sharp edges wicked cuts abound avenge me

27th May 2006, 12:56 AM	#8
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 372	Important too to remember that Haiku masters loved word games and puns With soft arc From folded steel A past life DrD