Watering on a tulwar blade

Jim McDougall · 27th January 2005, 01:31 AM

Hello Jeff,
Very interesting photo you have posted, which is the distinctly recognizable 'armor piercing' point on late 17th-mid 18th c. Tatar sabres. These sabres obviously are quite contrary to the blades with widened false edge points or 'yelmans' that we are considering, and suggest a very different perspective in swordsmanship. The term 'Tatar' has often been used generally with reference to nomadic steppes tribes and thus trying to more clearly define the specific use of these unusual sabres would be difficult.
These swords are discussed in "Polish Sabres: Their Origins and Evolution" by Jan Ostrowski & Wojciech Bochnak, from "Art, Arms & Armour" ed. Robert Held, Vol. I, 1979.

While the development of the curved sword/sabre has brought considerable debate and speculation, one of the key components of many of these forms has been the yelman, and is equally controversial.
It seems generally held that this blade feature developed concurrently with curved sabre blade forms with gentle radius to point, and on the widened form, a reverse edge on straight swords which evolved into double biconcave curves that gradually displayed a visible angle. This seems to have evolved into a widened point with subtle progression to curve in the blade. This feature is believed to have evolved from the east, quite possibly Chinese frontier regions such as Turkestan,and found its way to Persian regions. The Mongol curved blades had already existed in the subcontinent by the 14th c. and the Timurid rulers of Khorasan held profound influence in India, of course leading to the developing modified blades.

It seems that the sharpened reverse edge in widened form added weight and momentum to the dynamics of the favored slashing drawcut.

This material is discussed by Dr. Syed Zafar Haider in "Islamic Arms and Armour of Muslim India", Lahore, pp.169-171.

I think the idea of discussing the yelman as a developed feature on certain sabre blades is a great idea, and would be an excellent independant thread.

Very best regards,
Jim

27th January 2005, 01:31 AM	#18
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	Hello Jeff, Very interesting photo you have posted, which is the distinctly recognizable 'armor piercing' point on late 17th-mid 18th c. Tatar sabres. These sabres obviously are quite contrary to the blades with widened false edge points or 'yelmans' that we are considering, and suggest a very different perspective in swordsmanship. The term 'Tatar' has often been used generally with reference to nomadic steppes tribes and thus trying to more clearly define the specific use of these unusual sabres would be difficult. These swords are discussed in "Polish Sabres: Their Origins and Evolution" by Jan Ostrowski & Wojciech Bochnak, from "Art, Arms & Armour" ed. Robert Held, Vol. I, 1979. While the development of the curved sword/sabre has brought considerable debate and speculation, one of the key components of many of these forms has been the yelman, and is equally controversial. It seems generally held that this blade feature developed concurrently with curved sabre blade forms with gentle radius to point, and on the widened form, a reverse edge on straight swords which evolved into double biconcave curves that gradually displayed a visible angle. This seems to have evolved into a widened point with subtle progression to curve in the blade. This feature is believed to have evolved from the east, quite possibly Chinese frontier regions such as Turkestan,and found its way to Persian regions. The Mongol curved blades had already existed in the subcontinent by the 14th c. and the Timurid rulers of Khorasan held profound influence in India, of course leading to the developing modified blades. It seems that the sharpened reverse edge in widened form added weight and momentum to the dynamics of the favored slashing drawcut. This material is discussed by Dr. Syed Zafar Haider in "Islamic Arms and Armour of Muslim India", Lahore, pp.169-171. I think the idea of discussing the yelman as a developed feature on certain sabre blades is a great idea, and would be an excellent independant thread. Very best regards, Jim