cartouche

urbanspaceman · 12th February 2021, 07:26 PM

It is a 36" /92cm blade; very sharp on both sides.
A wedding present from the bride's family perhaps; it is the lower line that stump me as it is one word and my mother-in-law couldn't identify it but maybe it is Spanish or Portuguese etc.

urbanspaceman · 12th February 2021, 07:29 PM

it is a large hilt as well, hence the deceptive proportions

urbanspaceman · 12th February 2021, 07:31 PM

maybe that is an ampersand third from the right?

urbanspaceman · 12th February 2021, 07:49 PM

this picture shows the proportions more accurately

urbanspaceman · 12th February 2021, 08:02 PM

The blade is a flattened lozenge. With regard to a triangular blade: what confuses the eye is a soft flat along its length from the bottom of the engraving which is almost a gentle groove.
I considered the lower lettering as one word as it is joined at the base whereas the lettering of Simon has a separated O; equally, if it is an ampersand then the join-up is not relevant. All seems possible, and has always confused me.

urbanspaceman · 12th February 2021, 08:15 PM

Now this is where I also get confused: it is unquestionably a smallsword hilt (see pic) but that style of blade has always suggested rapier to me.
The sword is too late to fit into the chronological transition period i.e. first half of the 17thC but I assumed a rapier like blade and a smallsword hilt was generically labelled a transitional rapier.
I have two swords, both with old rapier blades and new court-sword hilts that are equally confusing to me.
I've also included n enlargement of the motto.

mariusgmioc · 12th February 2021, 08:29 PM

While most frequently smallswords had hollow triangular blades, diamond and flattened hexagonal blades were also common.

fernando · 12th February 2021, 08:34 PM

Beautiful sword.
Amazing thing; it never occurs to me calling these, and the like, rapier blades ... independently of their proportions. I take it those are a different universe

.

mariusgmioc · 12th February 2021, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

It is a 36" /92cm blade; very sharp on both sides.
A wedding present from the bride's family perhaps; it is the lower line that stump me as it is one word and my mother-in-law couldn't identify it but maybe it is Spanish or Portuguese etc.

Even if it is 92 cm long blade, that doensn't make it a rapier, but a large smallsword. And yes, the new photo shows better the proportions... but more images may shed more light.

The lower line definitely does NOT appear to be one word, but a succession of abbreviated words (I suggest below one possible way of separating the words), hence the difficulty of deciphering its meaning.

12th February 2021, 07:26 PM	#1
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 621	blade length It is a 36" /92cm blade; very sharp on both sides. A wedding present from the bride's family perhaps; it is the lower line that stump me as it is one word and my mother-in-law couldn't identify it but maybe it is Spanish or Portuguese etc.

12th February 2021, 07:29 PM	#2
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 621	ps it is a large hilt as well, hence the deceptive proportions

12th February 2021, 07:31 PM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 621	error maybe that is an ampersand third from the right?

12th February 2021, 07:49 PM	#4
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 621	alt pic this picture shows the proportions more accurately Attached Images

12th February 2021, 08:02 PM	#5
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 621	words and pictures The blade is a flattened lozenge. With regard to a triangular blade: what confuses the eye is a soft flat along its length from the bottom of the engraving which is almost a gentle groove. I considered the lower lettering as one word as it is joined at the base whereas the lettering of Simon has a separated O; equally, if it is an ampersand then the join-up is not relevant. All seems possible, and has always confused me.

12th February 2021, 08:15 PM	#6
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 621	confusion Now this is where I also get confused: it is unquestionably a smallsword hilt (see pic) but that style of blade has always suggested rapier to me. The sword is too late to fit into the chronological transition period i.e. first half of the 17thC but I assumed a rapier like blade and a smallsword hilt was generically labelled a transitional rapier. I have two swords, both with old rapier blades and new court-sword hilts that are equally confusing to me. I've also included n enlargement of the motto. Attached Images

12th February 2021, 08:29 PM	#7
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	While most frequently smallswords had hollow triangular blades, diamond and flattened hexagonal blades were also common. Attached Images Last edited by mariusgmioc; 12th February 2021 at 08:40 PM.

12th February 2021, 08:34 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Beautiful sword. Amazing thing; it never occurs to me calling these, and the like, rapier blades ... independently of their proportions. I take it those are a different universe .