Kebo Giri? Kebokantong?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by kai

I am still not sure whether the luk in your piece have been added later: The blade in this section is considerably more slender. However, these kebo/mahesa blades are often quite worn and usually seem to have been of somewhat more moderate craftsmanship to begin with. If you compare the examples shown in the linked threads, you'll notice small deviations/inconsistancies and especially those with luk can appear a bit ungainly. Thus, these luk might as well be original.

Regards,
Kai

I share Kai's opinion that the luks may have been carved later as at least on one side of the blade, the pamor pattern in the center of the blade seems to stop just under the first luk...
If you compare this blade with the one shown by Detlef, you will notice that the luks are contained within the straight blade's envelope (could have been carved from it), while the luks of Sajen's blade protrude from it.
Some blades with dapur Mahesa Kantong are quality made, see my specimen.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

I've just spent 30 minutes or so in Photoshop playing with the photos that show the front of Shayde's blade.

Why?

Because in these photos as published it is totally impossible for me to read the grain of the metal.

Why do I want to read the grain of the metal?

Because that is the only way that I might be able to hazard a guess at whether or not the front of this blade had the waves cut into it or forged into it.

However, even if I could read the metal grain and it told me that the waves were very probably forged in, I would not have any way of knowing if they had been forged in during original manufacture, or if they had been forged in after the original manufacture.

In fact, forging the waves into the blade after it had been finished would be far more satisfactory than cutting them in, and if the waves were intended as a talismanic enhancement, it would be the only acceptable process of alteration.

Even if I had this blade in my hands any opinion I gave on the waves would only be an informed guess. Trying to provide any sort of guess on the basis of what I can see in these images is simply beyond me.

[shayde78]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I've just spent 30 minutes or so in Photoshop playing with the photos that show the front of Shayde's blade.

Why?

Because in these photos as published it is totally impossible for me to read the grain of the metal.

Why do I want to read the grain of the metal?

Because that is the only way that I might be able to hazard a guess at whether or not the front of this blade had the waves cut into it or forged into it.

However, even if I could read the metal grain and it told me that the waves were very probably forged in, I would not have any way of knowing if they had been forged in during original manufacture, or if they had been forged in after the original manufacture.

In fact, forging the waves into the blade after it had been finished would be far more satisfactory than cutting them in, and if the waves were intended as a talismanic enhancement, it would be the only acceptable process of alteration.

Even if I had this blade in my hands any opinion I gave on the waves would only be an informed guess. Trying to provide any sort of guess on the basis of what I can see in these images is simply beyond me.

I apologize for the poor quality of the pictures. If could stop myself from purchasing interesting pointy things, I could invest in a better camera!

That said, while my knowledge of keris is limited, I do know how to read metal just a little bit. For starters, the contours of the luk stay within the margins of what the original profile of the blade would have been had it been forged without luk. This is consistent with them having been ground into a once straight blade. Even if the luk had been reforged into the blade, the curves would almost certainly deviate just a little bit from the original profile. In this example, they do not.

As for reading the grain, I can decern where the curves of the luk break the plane of the grain. I suspect if the curves were forged, the grain would follow the contours. Here, the curves cut right into the grain. It is like taking a French baguette and molding undulations into it before baking. In this case, the crust would follow the curves. However, if you took a loaf that has been baked straight, then cut curves into it, you would see where the brown crust is cut through and the white interior is exposed. I believe the later is what im seeing on this keris.

I will try to borrow a better camera and try to show you what I'm seeing. It also may have to wait until I clean the blade. That might be a bit down the road as I'm in the process of moving. According to my wife, "this is not the time to bring more [stuff] into the house!" Still, I couldn't pass up this one.

Thanks all!

[A. G. Maisey]

If the grain of the metal does not follow the curve of the edge of the blade it would be likely that the waves were cut into it rather than forged

[David]

I suspect this blade will be much easier to read once it has been clean and preferable given warangan treatment. I look forward to the clean up.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

I suspect this blade will be much easier to read once it has been clean and preferable given warangan treatment. I look forward to the clean up.

Good luck and I am also eager to see the result!