Show us your ball butt.... pistol

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Merry Christmas to ALL that celebrate the Holiday.

Hi Kubur. Hope all has been well for you.

I think the ball-butt is somewhat a carry over feature from the wheellock era.

Rick

Hi Rick,
Still alive. I hope that you are fine too and happy new year!

Yes you are right these pistols are from the wheellock era, like the Caucasians ones.

Originally Posted by rickystl

Very seldom have I seen any Balkan style pistol that did not include a barrel band(s). The ones that were pin fastened also appeared to European made pistols for export to the Eastern markets.

Rick

well for the ball butts it's normal as they are Turkish and not from the Balkans...

[corrado26]

....and here I add some fotos of another one with ballbutt and a fantasy gunmaker's signature on the lockplate

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by corrado26

....and here I add some fotos of another one with ballbutt and a fantasy gunmaker's signature on the lockplate

It's the first time that I see a ballbutt with a trigger guard...

I have another ballbutt with glass inlays and barrel band...

[qusko]

Rick, Kubur,

Thanks for your replies! Adding for others some new pictures I've found.

[qusko]

Plus some more ..

[Jim McDougall]

These are amazing pistols, and I just wanted to add an example of mine which is of course Caucasian, but most probably a Liege product, mid 19th c.
Pretty simple.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

These are amazing pistols, and I just wanted to add an example of mine which is of course Caucasian, but most probably a Liege product, mid 19th c.
Pretty simple.

Hi Jim,
Is this your secret garden? I was thinking that you were obsessed by swords only... I'm sure that Rick will comment the lock and the barrel better than me. Very nice pistol
Best wishes

[rickystl]

Some great photos of these ball butt pistols. And Kubur, you are probably right about it's Turkish origins.

The beautiful example posted by Corado is also the first pistol of this type I've seen with a trigger guard. Looks like it was possibly added later (?) If so, it appears to have been done sometime during the period. Notice the rear of the guard being attached with screws versus the more typical nail on attachment.

Jim's pistol is very interesting. Obviously of Caucasian manufacture. Simply made, but with a back-action style percussion lock. As with other guns from this Region and time, guns made with percussion locks are less commonly encountered. It's the belief of many that this was due to the small supply of percussion caps available in the Region and their high cost.

The back-action percussion lock seems to have appeared sometime around the mid-1840's. Some gunsmiths felt that this action was stronger than the traditional front-action locks as used on most percussion and flintlock guns with the mainspring being positioned to the rear of the breech area versus the front. Other gunsmiths thought that it just transferred the weak area of the wood stock from the front lock bolt to the rear of the pistol grip. In fact, this is still being debated today by gun enthusiasts. Never the less, both front action and back action locks were used during the 1840-1870 period.
One advantage of the back-action lock for pistols was that it allowed the use of larger caliber barrels without the need for the extra wood around the lock area. And Jim's pistol is an excellent example of this. This is also why almost every example of double barrel shotguns that became popular during this time frame have (smaller) rear-action locks.

Hopefully, one day, I'll find one of these Turkish styled ball but pistols. Still looking.

Meantime, my only ball butt Caucasian pistol with the interesting feature that the stock was made from a single horn.

Rick

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Jim,
Is this your secret garden? I was thinking that you were obsessed by swords only...

Simply astounding, Jim. Have i ever heard that you have got rid of all your arms collection in favor of space for a library in your RV ... AKA bookmobile ? .

[cyten]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

These are amazing pistols, and I just wanted to add an example of mine which is of course Caucasian, but most probably a Liege product, mid 19th c.
Pretty simple.

I once discussed with noted Russian Arms collector, Joe Leiper (RIP) about these and he told me:

"1849 Cossack percussion pistol
Пистолет обр 1849г
Probably the most commonly seen Russian pistol from this period is the Liege manufactured 6 line Cossack Pistol. These were a purchased weapon made in Belgium and most have the Perron Tower mark of Liege on the side of the barrel (established 1853?). Some additionally have a Crown ‘V’ mark as well.

Almost never Russian marked, supposedly delivered for the Crimean war
Rifled, Caliber .60 land to land, 4 groove rifled .20 depth grooves (.640) diameter bore
Liege proof, crown ‘V’, Peron tower mark

Reported production is 2000 pistols, but too many of these are seen for this to be true."