Some considerations regarding the Gile - Billao hybrid

Kubur · 7th December 2020, 11:09 PM

I agree, it’s excellent and what serious research should be.
Yvain, please look at this post and you will see a similar story with the so-called Sudanese swords in Ethiopia…
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...iopian+kaskara

Richard G · 8th December 2020, 06:27 PM

Do you know what are those curious, almost lyre shaped, objects that they have on their right shoulder?
Regards
Richard

Ian · 8th December 2020, 06:48 PM

Excellent research Yvain! Thank you for presenting it here.

Yvain · 8th December 2020, 08:34 PM

Hi everyone !

Thanks for your kind words ! It's always difficult for me to write down the results of my research since English isn't my first language, but it is definitely worth it when I read such interesting answers afterward !

Kubur, thanks a lot for the link, I've skimmed over it quickly (will need to read it more thoroughly) and I think it will be extremely interesting for me as I'm currently researching a very unusual kaskara, and what I'm seeing tends to confirm my suspicions ...

Richard, according to Allan Slatec, those are bow support from the Somali ethnic group (no idea how it was used though ...), see picture attached.

Leif and TVV, regarding the relation between Afar and Issa, I think that people coming from urban centers might be a little less concerned by the ongoing conflict than people living in more rural areas as you pointed out. Though considering the level of violence reached by this conflict, I don't think this happens a lot, or that there is much cultural exchanges between the two groups at the moment. However, I have no doubt it happened in the past, as you rightfully pointed out, since low intensity conflict between nomadic, pastoral, populations was expected in the order of things. Those violent episodes were most likely intersected by periods of peace, exchange, and trade.

colin henshaw · 9th December 2020, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard G

Do you know what are those curious, almost lyre shaped, objects that they have on their right shoulder?
Regards
Richard

There are similar (but not identical), carved wooden objects displayed in the Powell-Cotton Museum, Birchington, Kent ... described as "spear holders".

Richard G · 11th December 2020, 01:54 PM

Curiouser and curiouser. In the photograph neither of them seem to be carrying a bow or any arrows.
In Colin's photo's from the Powell-Cotton Museum I am amazed how the spears seem to stack in the spear holder without touching each other. Witchcraft?
Is Slatec's reference to Rouanda a reference to modern Rwanda? If this is so we are approaching Central Africa which suggests 'support de arc' were quite widespread, yet they are something I don't think I've come across before.
Best wishes
Richard

Rafngard · 8th December 2020, 06:38 PM

Fantastic research.

For what it's worth, I've met at least one person who was half Afar and half Somali. So at least presently, there is some intermixing. I can't remember which parent was which, but he grew up in Djibouti and was in his early to mid-30s when I met him (about 9 years ago).

For context, I live in Minneapolis, which is a major hub in the Somali diaspora (we have the largest Somali population in the Western Hemisphere), and I used to be an ESL tutor, and it was in this capacity that I met him. I also studied Somali in college.

I also wanted to add that, while I don't know much about the Issa clan specifically (most Somalis I've known didn't want to talk about "Qabil," the term for clan, with me), Somalis generally are known for being very enterprising, and trade-focused, always battering and negotiating. Given that the traditional lifestyle for a lot of Somalis in the north (e.g. the Issa clan) is nomadic pastoralism (unlike the more settled, agricultural Somalis in the south), this makes a lot sense. So borrowing a knife from a neighboring culture doesn't seem much of a stretch to me.

Have fun,
Leif

8th December 2020, 08:34 PM	#4
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 181	Hi everyone ! Thanks for your kind words ! It's always difficult for me to write down the results of my research since English isn't my first language, but it is definitely worth it when I read such interesting answers afterward ! Kubur, thanks a lot for the link, I've skimmed over it quickly (will need to read it more thoroughly) and I think it will be extremely interesting for me as I'm currently researching a very unusual kaskara, and what I'm seeing tends to confirm my suspicions ... Richard, according to Allan Slatec, those are bow support from the Somali ethnic group (no idea how it was used though ...), see picture attached. Leif and TVV, regarding the relation between Afar and Issa, I think that people coming from urban centers might be a little less concerned by the ongoing conflict than people living in more rural areas as you pointed out. Though considering the level of violence reached by this conflict, I don't think this happens a lot, or that there is much cultural exchanges between the two groups at the moment. However, I have no doubt it happened in the past, as you rightfully pointed out, since low intensity conflict between nomadic, pastoral, populations was expected in the order of things. Those violent episodes were most likely intersected by periods of peace, exchange, and trade. Attached Images

7th December 2020, 11:09 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	I agree, it’s excellent and what serious research should be. Yvain, please look at this post and you will see a similar story with the so-called Sudanese swords in Ethiopia… http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...iopian+kaskara

8th December 2020, 06:27 PM	#2
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 415	Do you know what are those curious, almost lyre shaped, objects that they have on their right shoulder? Regards Richard

8th December 2020, 06:48 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,469	Excellent research Yvain! Thank you for presenting it here.

11th December 2020, 01:54 PM	#6
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 415	Curiouser and curiouser. In the photograph neither of them seem to be carrying a bow or any arrows. In Colin's photo's from the Powell-Cotton Museum I am amazed how the spears seem to stack in the spear holder without touching each other. Witchcraft? Is Slatec's reference to Rouanda a reference to modern Rwanda? If this is so we are approaching Central Africa which suggests 'support de arc' were quite widespread, yet they are something I don't think I've come across before. Best wishes Richard

8th December 2020, 06:38 PM	#7
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 355	Fantastic research. For what it's worth, I've met at least one person who was half Afar and half Somali. So at least presently, there is some intermixing. I can't remember which parent was which, but he grew up in Djibouti and was in his early to mid-30s when I met him (about 9 years ago). For context, I live in Minneapolis, which is a major hub in the Somali diaspora (we have the largest Somali population in the Western Hemisphere), and I used to be an ESL tutor, and it was in this capacity that I met him. I also studied Somali in college. I also wanted to add that, while I don't know much about the Issa clan specifically (most Somalis I've known didn't want to talk about "Qabil," the term for clan, with me), Somalis generally are known for being very enterprising, and trade-focused, always battering and negotiating. Given that the traditional lifestyle for a lot of Somalis in the north (e.g. the Issa clan) is nomadic pastoralism (unlike the more settled, agricultural Somalis in the south), this makes a lot sense. So borrowing a knife from a neighboring culture doesn't seem much of a stretch to me. Have fun, Leif