Bosnian Bichaq

[gp]

Originally Posted by Rick

I have seen so far not another mark like this one.

I have seen a similar knife around but in a much better version or at least the decent standard Bosnian version with the kilij mark.
Please compare the handle / grip.

I can not recall exactly where but your mark rings a bell as I have seen it around before... could be as a Turkish or rather Ottoman one.
Could be that a local craftsman copied the Bosnian one and marked it with the Turkish / Ottoman cresent...

[gp]

just bought a bichaq at an auction with this description:

"Unusual 19th C., Asian Indonesian Malaysian Dagger Knife with Carved Horn Grip & Silver Mounts. Total Length (inside scabbard if present) : 10 1/2" Blade Length : 5 1/4"

Obviously it is a Bosnian Bichaq, a non K.u.K / non Habsburgian one but dated prior the occupation by Habsburg Austria , so before 1878.
My guess would be around 1850 /60 based upon exhibition pieces in Sarajevo I saw.
Now I shall have to wait until it arrives and clean it

[Battara]

Very nice! Unusual to have a hanger assembly on the back of the scabbard. Very nice workmanship on the front and throat of the scabbard.

[gp]

Originally Posted by gp

just bought a bichaq at an auction with this description:

"Unusual 19th C., Asian Indonesian Malaysian Dagger Knife with Carved Horn Grip & Silver Mounts. Total Length (inside scabbard if present) : 10 1/2" Blade Length : 5 1/4"

Obviously it is a Bosnian Bichaq, a non K.u.K / non Habsburgian one but dated prior the occupation by Habsburg Austria , so before 1878.
My guess would be around 1850 /60 based upon exhibition pieces in Sarajevo I saw.
Now I shall have to wait until it arrives and clean it

warning :

I bought it from Sofe Design Auctions, LLC in Richardson, TX, United States yesterday.
Price $ 175 + 25 %
whilst the estimate was $300 - $500.
no minimum price.....so lucky me.....

Not so

as it just got cancelled and I received an email:

Please be advised that the seller has requested your permission to remove the following item:
Lot 406, Unusual 19th C., Asian Indonesian Malaysian Dagger
which you've won during Fall Antique Arms & Art, Nov. 7th, 2020 on Nov 07, 2020.


Reason for removal - clerking error.

Never in 30 years auction experience I met this...after 1 month a clerking error took place... just like the dagger was Asian....
So much for integrity...for an item that was weeks on their books and internet
Well s-beep- happens, so I'll sing an old Lizzy song


I am just a cowboy, lonesome on the trail
A starry night, a campfire light
The coyote call and the howling wind wail
So I ride out to the old sundown

Stay healthy you all !

[David R]

This is not on. Someone did not get their hoped for price and so reneged on the deal, Shame.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by gp

... Please be advised that the seller has requested your permission to remove the following item:
Lot 406, Unusual 19th C., Asian Indonesian Malaysian Dagger
which you've won during Fall Antique Arms & Art, Nov. 7th, 2020 on Nov 07, 2020.
Reason for removal - clerking error. ...

This statement from the auction house is critical. You are being asked for permission to cancel the sale. As I read this, you can say "No" and the sale should be transacted properly. Also, you are not being told what the "clerking error" was and who made that error. If it was the seller, then that's his bad luck! If it was the auction house, then the seller might have some recourse in getting compensation from the auction house. You should not be denied a legal transaction because somebody else made an error.

[gp]

Thnx!

I did send LiveAuctioneers who is the intermediate my complaint but they don't get involved except advice to agree with the permission to remove or if the seller receives no response from me within 7 days, the item will be removed from your shopping cart automatically, and you will not be responsible for payment.

So now I insisted and requested the auction house Sofe Design Auctions, LLC to legally comply and invoice me so I can have my forwarder pick it up.

Strange rules from Sofe Design Auctions, LLC in Richardson, TX, ...

[gp]

just got their reply...

"It was a clerking mistake on Liveauctioneer.com. You did not win this item. Sorry. Auctioneer rewarded the winning bid to a floor bidder."

Guess what ... my winning bid I placed 2 days ago is still the highest on the internet...

what's happening with the good ol' U S of A ...? Should I give Rudy (Giuliani) a call...?

[Ian]

Hi gp,

This all smells very fishy! You were identified as the winning bidder, and asked permission for the seller to withdraw the item. Having pushed for what is rightfully yours, and you expressly did not grant the requested permission, you are now told that you were not the winning bidder!

If you want to take it further, you (or, preferably, your legal representative) could file a consumer complaint with the respective Attorneys General in the states where the auction house and Liveauctioneer.com are registered. Without knowing the specific details, it may be possible (perhaps) for you to argue that one or both are in breach of contract for the sale, and that you were provided false or misleading information as to the winner of the item. It may not be worth your time and expense, but a good lawyer would certainly help.

Thanks for posting the details of your transaction. Readers here can form their own opinions of the respective companies involved.

I stopped buying from auction houses 40 years ago--buyers premiums were too expensive and there were too many shenanigans like your unfortunate experience.

Ian.

Originally Posted by gp

just got their reply...

"It was a clerking mistake on Liveauctioneer.com. You did not win this item. Sorry. Auctioneer rewarded the winning bid to a floor bidder."

Guess what ... my winning bid I placed 2 days ago is still the highest on the internet...

what's happening with the good ol' U S of A ...? Should I give Rudy (Giuliani) a call...?

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by gp

Obviously it is a Bosnian Bichaq, a non K.u.K / non Habsburgian one but dated prior the occupation by Habsburg Austria , so before 1878.
My guess would be around 1850 /60 based upon exhibition pieces in Sarajevo I saw.

This is the only scabbard with a hanging ring. Or I'm wrong?

[gp]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

This is the only scabbard with a hanging ring. Or I'm wrong?

No, you're not (completely) wrong...as there is a little more than meets the eye to it.
Cold weapons used in the Ottoman Balkans, moreover Bosnia, Albania and Greece would not have a hanging ring as they would be carried in traditional scarf, wrapped around a man's waist, which functions as a belt.

The one you are refering to is more a "show" piece of a rich merchant or an aristocratic of a lower rank, or a lady's dagger (as can be found in Serbia between 1860-1900).
Serbia were from approx. 1862 pan-Slavism turned their eye more to the west than the Ottoman east.
Hence influence and contact in these border erea's with Austria, Hungaria and their Slav brethren ( Russia and others like the sokol movements ) would cause the introduction of other practical ideas and fashion as f.i. some of these rings.

[Ren Ren]

Thank you! The hanging ring (or lack thereof) is an important part of the scabbard design. But the back of the scabbard is not often seen in the photo.

[gp]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

Thank you! The hanging ring (or lack thereof) is an important part of the scabbard design. But the back of the scabbard is not often seen in the photo.

additional: for the more richer ones, a leather belt was an option. Multiple functions:
1. to protect the clothes when on display for offical celebrations and occassions
2. support carrying plural weapons ( pistols, bichaqs and yataghans)
3. provide support and relief of the total weight
4. comfort when riding a horse ( and avoid risk losing a valuable weapon)

@Detlef: see, a nice example of a yataghan without the fancy decoration of coral and stones but simple handle of metal and bone only

[Ian]

Originally Posted by gp

additional: for the more richer ones, a leather belt was an option. Multiple functions:
1. to protect the clothes when on display for offical celebrations and occassions
2. support carrying plural weapons ( pistols, bichaqs and yataghans)
3. provide support and relief of the total weight
4. comfort when riding a horse ( and avoid risk losing a valuable weapon)

@Detlef: see, a nice example of a yataghan without the fancy decoration of coral and stones but simple handle of metal and bone only

Gp, I could be wrong but the hilt on that yataghan looks like ivory to me. Very nice tooling on the leather pouch and belt.

[gp]

although I do not prefer damaged daggers, an exception if one stumbles on something rare or not often found like this Bosnian dagger

lenght dagger 20,8 cm
Blade : 11 cm
handle made from horn
silver one-sided writting Foca 1890

sadly one circular ornament missing and a small horn piece as well
the rarity for me is the Foca name and unyataghan-like form of the top of the handle
.
What are your thoughts ?
Should I also repair the missing piece of horn ?

[gp]

notwithstanding the enormous response ....
I decided to leave it as it was and not to repair the broken part by filling / replacing the hole by new horn material.

Another nice Bosnian bichaq, pre Habsburg era is this one with a leather strap, 29 cm long

[gp]

some more pics. What do you think about this bichaq ?

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by gp

notwithstanding the enormous response ....
I decided to leave it as it was and not to repair the broken part by filling / replacing the hole by new horn material.

Another nice Bosnian bichaq, pre Habsburg era is this one with a leather strap, 29 cm long

Hi

Why do you think your knife is Bosnian?

I have a small book about Balkan knives.

It is a nice book but 20% of the knives published are not from the Balkans, they are Turkish, Kurdish and North Africans.

Be carefull your post is turning like the Omani khanjar thread: a catamonologue or a monocatalogue...


Kind regards,
Kubur