Janggelan Hilt

[David]

While somewhat similar in shape, i am not sure that this hilt form you show can be classified as Janggelan. Maybe others have a different opinion.
Here is an excellent thread to show collections of janggelan hilts.
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14425

[A. G. Maisey]

David, 40 or 50 years ago I think I might have agreed with you that this hilt form is not really a janggelan, but then, I would not have had any other Indonesian name to to give it. However, in recent years it seems to me that most people do currently refer to this form as janggelan, and again, I do not know another name for it. Personally I'm happy enough to go with the flow on this one.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David, 40 or 50 years ago I think I might have agreed with you that this hilt form is not really a janggelan, but then, I would not have had any other Indonesian name to to give it. However, in recent years it seems to me that most people do currently refer to this form as janggelan, and again, I do not know another name for it. Personally I'm happy enough to go with the flow on this one.

Not only in "Persona Hulu Keris" is this hilt style described as janggelan, also in other books like in Suhartono Rahardjos "ragam Hulu Keris" is this style described as janggelan.

I also have some hilts of this style in my collection. Like Alan I guess that the hilt from IP is from ebony, I've never seen one from horn.

I am the only one who see by this particular janggelan style a "floral face" by some of them?

[A. G. Maisey]

Yeah, it is possible to see a face in some of them, and again, yeah, other published sources do call them janggelan.

Personally, I'd like a different name for them, but I've never heard one.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yeah, it is possible to see a face in some of them, and again, yeah, other published sources do call them janggelan.

Personally, I'd like a different name for them, but I've never heard one.

Yes, I also would like a different name for them, personally I see a apparent resemblance to floral putra satu hilts.

Regards,
Detlef

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Sajen

I am the only one who see by this particular janggelan style a "floral face" by some of them?

YES!!! It has haunted me because I can find no reference to it. I snapped some pictures of these things a month or two ago but could not find a common thread in them that made a post i though was worthy of bringing before the group. I wanted to ask if they were ancestors related to the patra on planar hilts, Kala, or rasasaka peeping out of the forest. Though sometimes the figures remind me of arachnids.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Sajen

I am the only one who see by this particular janggelan style a "floral face" by some of them?

No Sajen, I agree with you, and this is why some (mostly Western) people call them vegetation god... Nice collection by the way!

[David]

Well, as someone who seems to be especially prone to pareidolia i also see faces in the vegetal design of these hilts. I suppose it is debatable if these faces are intentional or not, but to me it seems likely that as Islamic restrictions on depicting human form came into play this was the result.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

I suppose it is debatable if these faces are intentional or not, but to me it seems likely that as Islamic restrictions on depicting human form came into play this was the result.

Agree with you David.

Regards,
Detlef

[Athanase]

Very nice collection Detlef
I love this type of hilt.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Jean

No Sajen, I agree with you, and this is why some (mostly Western) people call them vegetation god... Nice collection by the way!

Thank you Jean! It's a hilt style I like very much.

Regards,
Detlef

[Interested Party]

Alan and David thank you for your time and input

Mr. Maisey thanks for the tips I will put them into my arsenal. Attached to this reply are better quality photos of the blade I hope. I grew up in a temperate area that was said to remind the highlanders of their home so I guess that may be the reason I was taught rubbed oil finishes originally. I remember the mildew that guns would get if they weren't taken out of the cabinets and cleaned regularly. Now I live in an area that has a climate close to the Gibson desert of Australia, except maybe its slightly drier and a colder winter here. When I build a display as continue the home remodel I have been planning to include humidor like features.
The hilt being horn was speculation on how the inside looked when I originally disassembled it. The inside has a lighter washed out look that went away with rehydration. Originally I thought it was ebony and will defer to your expertise on the subject. I have been following the instructions of an old thread and diligently applying raw linseed to the hilt (and everything else i own due to the dryness here) Will the paraffin work more effectively?

David thanks for the clarification. I identified the hilt using old threads.

[A. G. Maisey]

Don't defer to anything IP, test the hilt:- use a very thin panel pin --- a lot of people use a needle, I don't because what you will do will ruin a needle, a panel pin costs next to nothing and you can throw it away. Grip the head of the panel pin with pliers and heat to point to red, stick that red hot pin into a hidden part of the hilt , maybe inside the tang hole, is the smell like burnt hair or like burnt wood?

As to what oil you use, I used to use linseed boiled and unboiled, for lots of things, these days I use it less. For horn I like medicinal paraffin. Other things are good too, like lanolin or lanolin based leather conditioners, but paraffin is cheap, easy to get, easy to use, works well.

Yeah, spend time on the blade, it is worth it.

[Jean]

[QUOTE=David]While somewhat similar in shape, i am not sure that this hilt form you show can be classified as Janggelan. Maybe others have a different opinion.

According to several authors, a janggelan hilt is described as having the shape of a pine cone or corn cob, so I would not classify this one as janggelan type but just floral, but it is only my opinion.

[A. G. Maisey]

You're right Jean, "janggelan" does mean "like a corn cob", but it also means "like the bones in a horse's tail bone" , yes, I know that a horse's tail is all long hair, but that hair grows from flesh supported by a tail bone, not unlike a human tail bone.

The reason that in East Jawa these rather tubular hilts are called janggelan is because of the texture of the hilt, both a corn cob and the bones from a horse's tail bone display grooves and channels, sometimes quite close in appearance to a corn cob after it has been stripped of seeds, sometimes with deep relief that we can see reflected in some of the carving found on these tubular janggelans.

In fact, there is not just a single type of janggelan, for example, those roughly triangular shaped Madura bird hilts are also janggelan hilts, they call them "Janggelan Bangau" in East Jawa, "bangau" is a kind of egret. All these variations have names, but I don't know them all.

I did not get this name "janggelan" from any book, it is the name that a m'ranggi in Solo whom I knew very well gave them, and also a Solo tukang jejeran used the same name for them, and people in Malang & Surabaya whom I have bought from also used this name.

I do not know any other name for this hilt style.

There is a very good book on hilts that was written by a gentleman whose name I have forgotten, his second name is Wiryadi I think. This man is from East Jawa and my memory is that he was introduced to keris collecting by his father in law, a Mr. Gondomono, who was very famous keris collector. This Mr. Gondomono, I believe, is the same Mr. Gondomono whom I met in Malang many years ago, I think he was a tailor(?) and I believe he had a special interest in Madura keris.

Anyway, this book written by Mr. Wiryadi might be worth looking at, because I'm pretty sure it extends the name "janggelan" to hilts other than the well known corn cob style. I've lent my copy to friend and cannot check it myself at the moment.

I actually do not have a carved-in-stone opinion on the correct name for this type of hilt, but until I do develop such an opinion, I think I'll follow the lead of the numerous people whom I have met who know more than I do on this particular subject.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Anyway, this book written by Mr. Wiryadi might be worth looking at, because I'm pretty sure it extends the name "janggelan" to hilts other than the well known corn cob style. I've lent my copy to friend and cannot check it myself at the moment.

Thank you Alan, I don't know this hilt book, but if you have the references of the publisher, please advise. I admit that my references are mostly Western authors and they tend to copy each other.
Regards
PS: I found the book: "The beauty of kris hilt", from the collection of Aswin Wiryadi, and written by Toni Junus. I may have seen some pics of it and was not convinced to buy it, any other opinion?

[A. G. Maisey]

I suppose it could have been written by Toni Junus, I do not have it at the moment and I cannot recall all the details, if in fact I ever read them.

However, it does have the Wiriyadi name on the cover, if Junus wrote the text my guess is that Wiryadi supplied the hilts from his own collection, along with notes, and then Junus turned it into text, he probably would have needed to do some on-the-ground research too I reckon.

It is a very well produced book, high quality photography and printing, I think it is in English and BI --- I really cannot recall what language it is written in, I've perused this book, but have not read it in detail and made notes. If the binding was done in Indonesia it is likely to become loose (ie, "shaken") pretty quickly.

There are not an enormous number of hilts shown in this book, but what hilts are shown are very good examples.

I would unhesitatingly recommend this book to anybody with an interest in the subject.

I cannot supply publisher's detail at the moment because I do not have the book at hand at the moment, I'll see if I can get those details later today.

EDIT

Jean, the book details as requested:-

"Persona Hulu Keris/The Beauty of Kris Hilt"
From the collection of Aswin Wirjadi
Parallel text:- Bahasa Indonesia/English
Publisher:- PT Indonesia Kebanggaanku,Gedung Caraka,
Jln. Nangka - TB, Simatupang Kav.7, Jakarta 12530
ISBN 978-979-25-2533-5

[Jean]

Thank you Alan, and it seems that I may have had a wrong impression about this book ("picture book") when it was published....

[A. G. Maisey]

Yeah, not just a picture book Jean, it is reasonably heavy on text, but as I said, I haven't read it yet, I've flicked through it a couple of times though, and I feel it might be worth reading, which I will do when I have nothing else to do.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Jean

PS: I found the book: "The beauty of kris hilt", from the collection of Aswin Wiryadi, and written by Toni Junus. I may have seen some pics of it and was not convinced to buy it, any other opinion?

I have this book, like Alan I've only read diagonal, it's bilingual, bahasa Indonesia/english, a lot of text and a very nice collection of keris hilts. Worth buying IMVHO.