British dragoon sword

[Bryce]

G'day Jim,
Here is a photo of the "Elliot's Dragoons" officer's lion headed sword from the Royal Collection Trust you mentioned and a copy of the entry in the Carlton House Catalogue where it is described.
Cheers,
Bryce

[Bryce]

Here is another from the Royal Armouries collection, which by repute belonged to an officer of the 16th LD.
Cheers,
Bryce

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Bryce,
Thank you so very much for these excellent examples, photos and material. It seems there is ample evidence that these recurved quillon examples were indeed used by the15th LD, and we know from 1763. While we do not know if these date from the 1759 raising of the regiment, it may be presumed so.

I had not been aware of the name Eliott's Horse for the 15th, but found that Gen. George Augustus Eliott was 1st Baron Heathfield, and did raise the 15th as one of the first of the 'new' light dragoon units. The 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th followed it seems in the same year.
Eliott seems to have been quite innovative and keyed to the arms of the unit, so it does not seem surprising that these apparently uniquely styled hilts were commissioned. He appears to have modified a pistol in use which became known as a pattern 1759.

The Light Dragoons were decided upon as result of testing the concept in 1756. It seems the swords used in this test were of the brass 'heart' shaped guard (as on the '1751' infantry hangers) but with longer blade.

In the article by Philip Lankester (Royal Armouries, op. cit.2004) he notes the sword which is virtually the same as my example (OP) in fig. 9, p.53.
It is noted that Jeffries supplied 3500 broad swords with iron basket hilts to the Board of Ordnance and discusses his characteristic markings IEF/RIS under GR and crown.
It is noted that this same mark was used on cavalry swords for 'other ranks' .
Here it says that 140 of a single 'pattern' are displayed at 'Guardroom' at Belvoir Castle, Leicesatershire and that the Royal Armouries has a single example of the same 'pattern'(ix2130) puchased in 1981.

"...the blade is 36.5" long and almost straight and the iron hilts have a knuckle-guard which widens slightly to form a slotted guard in front of the hand".

Further, '..it is not known which regiment or regiments used this 'pattern'."

The implication here is that this mysterious 'pattern' appears to have been made by Jeffries in 1759? or thereabouts. We know the example shown is by Jeffries, the mark is shown (fig. 8).
As previously mentioned my example is deeply pitted so marks cannot be seen. Interestingly, the example in the Royal Armouries is specifically noted as not 'cleaned or conserved' as purchased (1981).
As I purchased my example in 1977, it would seem coincidental that these 'rough' examples were circulating in this period at least in small quantity.

So we have no proof of this being a 15th LD sword (it is simply termed cavalry sword 1760-70 in the literature), but speculation based on the blade style with clipped point from the D guard example of c. 1780 .

It would seem that it is certain this curious 'pattern' was indeed a cavalry sword of 1760-70 (in 1770s branches were added to these guards).
We know Jeffries made them (as per examples with marked blades), but that he indeed made the recurved blade examples for the 15th as discussed.

Here is where the comparisons become muddled. It would seem the olive pommel and slotted guard were features that became popular more toward 1770. It seems that these clipped point blades also were notable in these swords for light dragoons in this later period.

Given those facts, it seems probable at this point that my sword may be later than the 1759 date I had hoped for because of these features, but does seem to correspond to the single 'pattern' mentioned in the Lankester article and certainly 1760-70 period as noted for 'cavalry'.

Whatever the case, it seems a relatively rare pattern (though not regulation of course) as it does not appear in the most comprehensive reference (Neumann, 1973) and is noted to be represented in Belvoir castle by the 140 examples (as of 2004) and single example Royal Armouries.

[Bryce]

G'day Jim,
I came across a photo of the swords displayed at Belvoir Castle. Given that it is the ancestral home of the Dukes of Rutland and that this family raised the 21st Light Dragoons in 1760, it is likely that these swords were for that regiment. The 21st LD's were disbanded in 1763 and this may explain why there are so many still present in the castle. These swords all have straight blades that taper down to an asymmetrical point, unlike your own clipped point example.
Cheers,
Bryce

PS I just noticed the difference in pommel and guard attachment between these swords and your own. As you said this may mean yours is later than 1760.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Bryce

G'day Jim,
I came across a photo of the swords displayed at Belvoir Castle. Given that it is the ancestral home of the Dukes of Rutland and that this family raised the 21st Light Dragoons in 1760, it is likely that these swords were for that regiment. The 21st LD's were disbanded in 1763 and this may explain why there are so many still present in the castle. These swords all have straight blades that taper down to an asymmetrical point, unlike your own clipped point example.
Cheers,
Bryce

PS I just noticed the difference in pommel and guard attachment between these swords and your own. As you said this may mean yours is later than 1760.

Wow Bryce, I had not noticed this..........mine has the ring around base of pommel......kinda looks Scottish? Is that not like placed on basket hilts?
The others all seem to go into aperture in pommel.
What pushes me toward post 1760 is the pommel shape, and the slotted guard with this clipped point blade. That pommel ring just threw me a curve.

[Bryce]

G'day Jim,
Look at this:
https://americansocietyofarmscollect...h-Behind-t.pdf

[Bryce]

Here is another like yours I found on the web.
Cheers,
Bryce