Balinese bilah pamor

Jean · 5th September 2020, 01:29 PM

Balinese?? Please show us the full blade.
Regards

Anthony G. · 5th September 2020, 05:07 PM

Attached as requested.

Marcokeris · 5th September 2020, 05:49 PM

IMO: sumsum buron

Jean · 5th September 2020, 06:34 PM

Thank you Antony and the blade looks in Balinese or Lombok style indeed and to have some age.
Sumsum Buron is a rare Javanese pamor pattern and it does not look very similar to this one (it has 2 versions) but I can't identify it better, may be pamor Srante but only a Balinese expert could confirm it with some certainty.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 5th September 2020, 10:00 PM

and then the next Balinese expert we found would give it a different name

Rick · 5th September 2020, 11:24 PM

Alan, you have hit upon my greatest frustration with 'kerisology' ; for me it is like trying to hold a shelless egg.

A. G. Maisey · 6th September 2020, 03:39 AM

Yes Rick, you are right, but it makes perfect sense if you are Javanese, and maybe for some other people too.

It is a general principle of Javanese communication that when you say something, it means precisely what you intend it to mean, no more, and no less. How the person receiving the message interprets what you are saying is up to him.

Javanese people in my experience are not good, nor effective letter writers, but they do communicate very well in a face to face situation. This is because at least half of all interpersonal communication with Javanese people is through body language.

It is a general principle of Javanese culture & society that the more meanings you can give to any one thing, the better. The true meaning will be obvious to the person who has the right or the need to understand , to others the understanding they gain will be in accordance with their level of knowledge or need.

Now this does not mean that only one person or idea can be correct, rather, it means that everybody can be correct, depending upon their own individual perspective.

Names are not particularly important, understanding is.

Jean · 6th September 2020, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

and then the next Balinese expert we found would give it a different name

Yes Alan, I agree. Would you be able to confirm that this blade is from Bali or Lombok, or made by somebody from another culture (Java or Madura) but in Balinese style?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 6th September 2020, 09:38 AM

No Jean, I could not confirm too much from the photos. Yes, it certainly looks like Bali, that I can confirm, but whether Bali or Lombok or Madura, sorry no idea, and frankly, even if i had it my hand I'd only be guessing.

Bali blades from Madura are not something that is only recent, as far as I know Bali was getting work done in Madura long, long ago, and still is.

Current Balinese makers will work together with both Jawa makers and Madura makers.

When a blade is already complete and particularly if it has a bit of age and what appears to be original dress, it is probably impossible to know exactly where something was made.

5th September 2020, 05:07 PM	#2
Anthony G. Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 470	Attached as requested. Attached Images

5th September 2020, 01:29 PM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Balinese?? Please show us the full blade. Regards

5th September 2020, 05:49 PM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	IMO: sumsum buron

5th September 2020, 06:34 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you Antony and the blade looks in Balinese or Lombok style indeed and to have some age. Sumsum Buron is a rare Javanese pamor pattern and it does not look very similar to this one (it has 2 versions) but I can't identify it better, may be pamor Srante but only a Balinese expert could confirm it with some certainty. Regards

5th September 2020, 10:00 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	and then the next Balinese expert we found would give it a different name

5th September 2020, 11:24 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Alan, you have hit upon my greatest frustration with 'kerisology' ; for me it is like trying to hold a shelless egg.

6th September 2020, 03:39 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Yes Rick, you are right, but it makes perfect sense if you are Javanese, and maybe for some other people too. It is a general principle of Javanese communication that when you say something, it means precisely what you intend it to mean, no more, and no less. How the person receiving the message interprets what you are saying is up to him. Javanese people in my experience are not good, nor effective letter writers, but they do communicate very well in a face to face situation. This is because at least half of all interpersonal communication with Javanese people is through body language. It is a general principle of Javanese culture & society that the more meanings you can give to any one thing, the better. The true meaning will be obvious to the person who has the right or the need to understand , to others the understanding they gain will be in accordance with their level of knowledge or need. Now this does not mean that only one person or idea can be correct, rather, it means that everybody can be correct, depending upon their own individual perspective. Names are not particularly important, understanding is.

6th September 2020, 09:38 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	No Jean, I could not confirm too much from the photos. Yes, it certainly looks like Bali, that I can confirm, but whether Bali or Lombok or Madura, sorry no idea, and frankly, even if i had it my hand I'd only be guessing. Bali blades from Madura are not something that is only recent, as far as I know Bali was getting work done in Madura long, long ago, and still is. Current Balinese makers will work together with both Jawa makers and Madura makers. When a blade is already complete and particularly if it has a bit of age and what appears to be original dress, it is probably impossible to know exactly where something was made.