Black Sea Yataghan (Again !?)

Mark · 17th May 2006, 06:17 PM

#1 looks almost like a shotel. Such a deep curve. Do you think that it, too is converted from a less-curved sabre? It lacks the flowing line of a blade made specifically to that shape, to my eye.

Oriental-Arms · 17th May 2006, 07:45 PM

Mark

Good comment - thanks. The deep curvature and the blade wide fullers are not very typical. Only the pommel ears suggest the affinity to the Black sea Yataghan.

Some time ago (I can not find the thread) I posted a similar one (The central one in the photo below):

It was suggested that it is converted from a bayonet and even the bayonet model and make were suggested. The fact that the fullers are etched in a pattern similar to this found on some Kindjal / Qamas was also discussed and suggested as a later addition to the converted bayonet.

The similarity of this sword to #1 above is staggering. Even the ribbed grips and pommel ears are similar. Also here the fullers are etched (so says the text in the book) so I would think it is NOT a converted item but some close relative of the Black Sea Yataghan, may be closer to the Caucasus region.

ariel · 17th May 2006, 09:03 PM

I remember, it was a Turkish bayonet. This still allows for the Laz origin; as a matter of fact, they might be produced by the same person ( or workshop). One can hardly get closer to the Caucasus per se than Lazistan, it is almost Minghrelia.
I am, however, puzzed by the 3rd one: apparently, there is a specific name for it in Kazakhstan. It would be unlikely to have a specific name for a totally foreign sword. And Kazakhs are Turkic people.....
These Laz Bichaks are the damnedest thins I know; the moment you think you nailed them, some new piece of information pops up!

Aral Sea yataghan?

Mark · 19th May 2006, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

I remember, it was a Turkish bayonet. This still allows for the Laz origin; as a matter of fact, they might be produced by the same person ( or workshop). One can hardly get closer to the Caucasus per se than Lazistan, it is almost Minghrelia.
I am, however, puzzed by the 3rd one: apparently, there is a specific name for it in Kazakhstan. It would be unlikely to have a specific name for a totally foreign sword. And Kazakhs are Turkic people.....
These Laz Bichaks are the damnedest thins I know; the moment you think you nailed them, some new piece of information pops up!

Aral Sea yataghan?

Now you know how I have been feeling about dha ...

I just noticed how bizarre the middle sword of the original photo is - it looks like it has a piece of a Western sabre hilt, and the end of the pommel is turned sharply up in a very awkward-looking way. Maybe you were supposed to brace your wrist inside the fork, to keep it straight during the stroke?

17th May 2006, 06:17 PM	#1
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	#1 looks almost like a shotel. Such a deep curve. Do you think that it, too is converted from a less-curved sabre? It lacks the flowing line of a blade made specifically to that shape, to my eye.

17th May 2006, 07:45 PM	#2
Oriental-Arms Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 183	Mark Good comment - thanks. The deep curvature and the blade wide fullers are not very typical. Only the pommel ears suggest the affinity to the Black sea Yataghan. Some time ago (I can not find the thread) I posted a similar one (The central one in the photo below): It was suggested that it is converted from a bayonet and even the bayonet model and make were suggested. The fact that the fullers are etched in a pattern similar to this found on some Kindjal / Qamas was also discussed and suggested as a later addition to the converted bayonet. The similarity of this sword to #1 above is staggering. Even the ribbed grips and pommel ears are similar. Also here the fullers are etched (so says the text in the book) so I would think it is NOT a converted item but some close relative of the Black Sea Yataghan, may be closer to the Caucasus region.

17th May 2006, 09:03 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I remember, it was a Turkish bayonet. This still allows for the Laz origin; as a matter of fact, they might be produced by the same person ( or workshop). One can hardly get closer to the Caucasus per se than Lazistan, it is almost Minghrelia. I am, however, puzzed by the 3rd one: apparently, there is a specific name for it in Kazakhstan. It would be unlikely to have a specific name for a totally foreign sword. And Kazakhs are Turkic people..... These Laz Bichaks are the damnedest thins I know; the moment you think you nailed them, some new piece of information pops up! Aral Sea yataghan?