Hand and a Half Sword

[ulfberth]

Hi Casey , congratulations with a beautiful hand and half sword !
There is a similar one in the Wallace collection , however that one could be with a associated pommel it is a bit out of style with the guard , while your pommel is in style with the guard both are faceted and have the same type of design.
Here is the one in the Wallace collection and its description : Longsword Solingen, Germany and Switzerland Date: c. 1610 - c. 1630 (pommel) early 17th century (guards (Swiss))probably first half 16th century (blade (German))
Date:c. 1610 - c. 1630 (pommel)early 17th century (guards (Swiss))
probably first half 16th century (blade (German))
Longsword, the blued hilt made up of a pommel in the form of an elongated oval, divided by a central ridge, and notched in the middle on each side; grip, swelling in the middle, corded and bound with leather; diagonally curved guard with scrolled tips, and accommodating two large pierced shell-guards; the double-edged blade of hexagonal section with hollow groove, bears the running wolf mark inlaid in copper alloy.

[Yvain]

Very nice !



I don't have much to add, as Ulfberth already said everything, but I can however tell that, having personally handled an original XVIth longsword, this one looks good and authentic ! (With the usual caveat of judging such things from pictures only.)


I'm not sure what that dent or "line" is, but it is sure it is not a tong mark (you can't really mark a blade that deep just with your tongs during forging, and even if it was the case, it would have been polished out later). It could be a later blade damage, but could you tell us if that line is present on each face, and if the blade gets significantly thicker between the guard and the mark?

[Lee]

Sometimes there will be a transverse difference in patination down in the lower forte like in your images reflecting different materials owing to a 'scarf' or overlapping weld where the tang is composed of a different (usually lower carbon) material. If this is the case, the location of the junction measured from the shouldering will be different on each side or will be seen just on a single side.

[cornelistromp]

hilt of Ulfberth's example, wallace A484

[CSinTX]

Ill attempt to answer questions. Point of balance is approximately 9.5cm in front of the guard. Weight is around 3.4lbs.

The indentations in the lower part on the blade are present on both sides but they are not equal on each side. That would make sense about a tang being welded on separate. It does seem there could be a difference in metals in the area.

Cornelis, do you have a link to those pictures? I cant seem to locate them on their site. Mine doesnt seem to have ever had shell guards. The shell guards in the example do look pretty unique. The piercings seem to match the pommel but are unlike anything I've seen on other swords.

More pics-

[Philip]

Originally Posted by CSinTX

Ill attempt to answer questions. Point of balance is approximately 9.5cm in front of the guard. Weight is around 3.4lbs.

The indentations in the lower part on the blade are present on both sides but they are not equal on each side. That would make sense about a tang being welded on separate. It does seem there could be a difference in metals in the area.

Cornelis, do you have a link to those pictures? I cant seem to locate them on their site. Mine doesnt seem to have ever had shell guards. The shell guards in the example do look pretty unique. The piercings seem to match the pommel but are unlike anything I've seen on other swords.

More pics-

Thanks, Casey! This is a beautiful sword you have, congrats.

Yours certainly has a responsive balance. Comparing with an example in my collection which I got recently (photos are in a PDF file which I can't separate into individual images so will take some phone pics and post them later), the POB comes in at 13.5 cm in front of guard, with a total weight of 1450 gm (around 3 1/4 lb) on a 91.5 cm blade length. So the balance on mine is not as "fast" as yours but is still effective in one hand.

The close ups of your blade reveal a definite "grain" in the steel, from lamination during the forging process. If these blades were polished and etched like Oriental swords, the layering would be just as impressive (Roberto Gotti's book, Caino, (Guardia di Croce, 2011) on the blade-making industry in a town in Lombardy, has a whole chapter on the metallurgy of some 16th-17th cent. rapier blades from its forges, and the work is pretty impressive).

Regarding those indentations, after looking at the latest photos yet again, I do notice in one of the images what appears to be a different color of the metal between the indentation and the guard. A sort of brownish tone? I don't know if we're seeing the same thing. Does the color change also coincide with the indentation on the other side? (you mentioned that the sunken areas are not directly opposite). If there is an offset, then it might just indicate a lap-weld as suggested previously.

To be sure, a good way to check might be a non-invasive etchant treatment, such as degreasing the area and applying a mild acid like lime juice or a strong vinegar. A sharply delineated color or texture contrast usually indicates dissimilar alloys of iron. The area can be easily cleaned afterwards with a bit of powdered cleanser and a damp rag.

(Lap-welding of a steel blade to an iron or low-carbon steel tang in an area just ahead of the hilt was common in some non-Western cultures, notably India. Late Ottoman blades often have this feature as well, the join usually being hidden by overlaid gold or silver decoration).

I think that the guard of your sword might be earlier than the otherwise similar one on the Wallace example posted above. The pierced "shells" seem to me a later design feature.

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by CSinTX

Cornelis, do you have a link to those pictures? I cant seem to locate them on their site. Mine doesnt seem to have ever had shell guards. The shell guards in the example do look pretty unique. The piercings seem to match the pommel but are unlike anything I've seen on other swords.

More pics-

please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=wallace

best,

[ulfberth]

Good observation Casey, the cut out shapes on the guard shells on Cornelistrump's example are the same shape as the pommel of the sword in the Wallace Collection, so either it was born like this or as Philip pointed out its a later upgrade.
Indeed there never were guard shells in your sword rings because these are fixed in the slits or grooves and your's does not have any grooves . On swords/rapiers that have lost these scales you can clearly see the grooves were the shells were fitted. When we look at the design of your swords crossguard we can see the swung or shape of the Pappenheimer style guard , in my opinion your sword is an earlier version of the one in the Wallace Collection that later developed further upgrading it with guard shells and some more later as we all know developed further to the Pappenheimer rapier, interesting is that there are also Pappenheimer hand and a half swords. Below an example of the grooves in a guard ring that has lost a shell and some Pappenheimer guards to compare the style and shape and a hand and a half sword .