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Old 20th July 2020, 11:54 PM   #1
Philip
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Default the thingies at the city gate / der Scharfrichter

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Originally Posted by shayde78

Oh, the fifth picture of this post contains an image of fortifications outside the main gate of a city/town. I included because I'm curious what is being represented. Not quite an edged weapon...but related, right?

The ninth picture is the one with the executioner swinging a two-handed sword that may depict a blunt tip. Again, this could just be a fault in the engraving, but the fact that such swords were often rebated caused me to make note of this

.
The spiky things outside the gate are cavalry repellant -- chevaux-de-frise or "Friesland horses" as they became known in France. I don't know the reason why the French tied them to this particular geographic location since am not sure exactly when and where they were invented. Typically they were arranged to block mass cavalry charges, since horses are understandably shy about having their tummies poked. In this case they would work fine for impeding footsoldiers en masse, too, since they would be forced to bunch up to access the approach footpaths, making them easier targets for the defenders.

The tip of the headsman's sword does appear to be blunted, but am not sure whether this might be due to it being clipped by the margin of the picture. After all, the image of St. Lucia stabbed through the neck (appearing elsewhere) shows the sword without a point because it falls at what would be the margin.

You might be interested in checking out Donald J. LaRocca's article, "The Renaissance Spirit" in the anthology Swords and Hilt Weapons (ed. Michael Coe), p 52. A woodcut by Hans Burgkmair (1473-1531) from the biography Der Weisskunig (Emperor Maximilian I) shows the headsman about to do his work on a victim kneeling atop the scaffold, and his sword clearly has a point. The blade's contour also has a distinct taper, like Oakeshott Type XII or XIII, not the parallel-edged or subtly widening shape of the "classic" Germanic heading-sword blade (incidentally, also used in Poland and Hungary.)
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Old 21st July 2020, 12:09 AM   #2
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Default the Holy Lance

Two pages up from the first appearance of our Ottoman friend, you can see on the left side something that at a hurried glance might appear to be a dagger, but is actually a socketed spearhead. The actual relic has been preserved in the Hofkammer at Vienna for centuries, it was once the property of the Holy Roman Emperors.

This object, by tradition, is the head of the Roman spear that pierced the side of Christ during the Crucifixion. It has been broken ages ago, and repaired with wire using an iron spike at midpoint, which is held to be one of the nails pulled out of the True Cross. I'll leave it to the experts on ancient Roman military equipment to comment on the historicity of the spearhead's design.

I have read somewhere that in some of the literature, this spearhead has been referred to as the Spear of St. Maurice. Interesting, since in the Armeria Reale di Torino is a sword that is traditionally venerated as La Spada di San Maurizio. St. Mauritius/Moritz/Maurizio was a Roman soldier who lived early in the imperial period, converting to Christianity and being martyred as a result. The sword, unfortunately, does not fit his bio since it is a far cry from a gladius or even a spatha; it is a typical north European knightly sword of late Viking type, Oakeshott Type X. Still well worth a visit if you're in town -- in remarkable condition for one of these, with scabbard and a polychromed fitted wooden case for the whole.
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Old 21st July 2020, 01:35 AM   #3
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Some really great insights, Philip!

I had never heard of chevaux-de-frise, before - interesting.

About the curved falcion/scimitar swords, I noticed these are also carried by many of the Jewish people depicted. A dark side of this book is that the level of antisemitism is stunning. If, as you postulate, the curved sword indicates a figure with a disreputable backstory, this would be consistent with the ways in which Jews are portrayed in the Chronicle. Although, Abraham, the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, is portrayed with such a blade. While possible even this figure wasn't spared disparagement, it is also possible the curved blade was just meant to represent the 'exotic' (much like Remnant's use of the keris.

Also, regarding that spear head, I almost didn't include it because I wasn't sure it was a spear, but I'm glad I did...the Spear of Destiny! I will have to try and read the entry and see how much it echoes what you have shared.

Thank you so much for these insights!
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Old 21st July 2020, 06:20 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by shayde78
A dark side of this book is that the level of antisemitism is stunning. If, as you postulate, the curved sword indicates a figure with a disreputable backstory, this would be consistent with the ways in which Jews are portrayed in the Chronicle. Although, Abraham, the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, is portrayed with such a blade. While possible even this figure wasn't spared disparagement, it is also possible the curved blade was just meant to represent the 'exotic' (much like Remnant's use of the keris.
The Jewish patriarchs of the OT were given something of a free pass in the worldview of the times because they were part of the lineage of prophets that led up to the appearance of Jesus and thus the foundation of the True Faith. More problematic were the Jews who remained such after that time, who didn't go over to Christianity.

Keep in mind that ever since Rome's conversion thanks to Constantine, the Christian world has experienced sectarian tribalism from then until modern times. Highlights include the heated dispute between unitarian and trinitarian theologies that led to the Council of Nicaea's declaring the latter to be the correct version. But the Roman Catholic (Latin) and the various Eastern Orthodox (Greek liturgy) churches continued to bicker until the Great Schism formalized the acrimonious split in 1054, and the two principal wings of Christendom have not yet fully reconciled. And then came the Protestant Reformation which led to a century of disastrous religious wars over much of Western Europe and some pretty frightful goings-on in the British Isles as well... The upshot of all this was that Western Christendom had honed a pretty militant edge to its world-view even before the Middle Ages morphed into the Renaissance.

Amid all this, there was enough vitriol left over for the Jews as well. During the Crusades, the Franks made it a point to plunder and ravage Jewish communities, mainly in the German lands, on their way to the Holy Land to fight the Saracens. (And during the Fourth Crusade, these Catholic warriors committed the unspeakable against Orthodox Christians during the so-called Rape of Constantinople in 1204. Gibbon, ch 60, contains a dramatic and graphic description of the siege and its barbaric aftermath).

A lot of the anti-semitic feeling was fueled by economics. It wasn't just dogma and ideology. The Catholic Church, like Islam, banned the charging of interest, so Jews became the moneylenders by default. The prosperity and influence of many Jewish communities fueled resentment. For instance, during the late Middle Ages over 10% of the real estate around present-day Barcelona was in Jewish hands. In some countries, Jews represented a far greater share of the population than today -- some historians estimate that before the forced conversions and the voluntary exile of the unconverted in the 16th cent., up to 20% of Portugal's people were Jewish.

The Jews also suffered the fallout from the Christian-Islamic conflict in the medieval Iberian Peninsula. The feudal states that were to become Portugal and a united Spain fought their on-off-on Reconquistas since the Arab invasions of the 8th cent. Over time, the rather tolerant attitudes of early Moslem caliphs in Andalucía (the Iberian was called the Ornament of the World in the eyes of medieval Jewry) hardened with growing fundamentalism under dynasties like the Almoravides, and it was met with increasing Catholic militarism. The Jew was regarded as the infidel brethren of the Mohammedan, and traveling preachers preached fiery anti-semitic sermons in Spain in the same century that the Nürnberg Chronicle was written. Jews were required to accept Catholic baptism beginning in the mid-1400s, or be forced into exile. (Ferdinand and Isabella issued a formal expulsion order to Jews and Moors in 1492). Converted Jews were required to adopt surnames, be recorded on church baptismal records, and subject to surveillance, arrest, and punishment by the Inquisition if suspected of heresy. Portugal followed suit in the 16th cent. as a condition of one of its princes marrying into the Spanish royal lineage, and the persecution in both countries became a global institution: tribunals operated in Lima and Mexico City, crypto-Jews fled to Protestant countries and even to the frontier in today's New Mexico; a suspected heretic could be "fingered" by spies in Manila or Nagasaki, shipped to Goa (India) to be tried, interrogated, and burned at the stake there. Quite an operation... And these Inquisitions, which were really Crown-instigated institutions created for political ends with legitimacy granted by the Church with oversight by monastic orders, were not abolished until the early 1800s.

So, the graphics and text of the Chronicles were no anomaly, rather, they were part of a recognizable cultural matrix that had evolved in the West since the decline and fall of Rome.

Last edited by Philip; 21st July 2020 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 21st July 2020, 01:36 PM   #5
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Could you tell who are those two personalities in the center of the last depiction, in the end of post #19 ? .
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Old 21st July 2020, 04:00 PM   #6
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Could you tell who are those two personalities in the center of the last depiction, in the end of post #19 ? .
I believe it is Fredrick III, Holy Roman Emperor (Romischer Kaiser) who died in August 1493, and his wife, Elanor of Portugal (however, she would have been deceased for a number of years before this image was made, but I don't believe Fredrick remarried so it may have been convention to continue to represent the royal couple this way).

I'm including additional images showing the entire page and the facing page to see if there are more clues there. The caption above the picture does indicate the figure on the right is Fredrich. It names (i believe) Pope Pius II on the left, but I assume that refers to the individual behind the throne with the pointy hat (miter?)
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Old 21st July 2020, 06:01 PM   #7
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Thank you Rob.
I take it however that Eneas (Pope Pio II) is the central figure, the one next to the King. I guess the crown (tiara) he wears is a papal exclusive, rather than the bishop miter the person in the back is wearing. Notwithstanding he is holding a patriarchal cross; in this case the subject of my interest ... i confess.
I wonder what is the episode (if in real life) the author depicting. I have tried to translate that four lines 'verse' ... but without success.


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Old 21st July 2020, 10:54 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Philip
Two pages up from the first appearance of our Ottoman friend, you can see on the left side something that at a hurried glance might appear to be a dagger, but is actually a socketed spearhead. The actual relic has been preserved in the Hofkammer at Vienna for centuries, it was once the property of the Holy Roman Emperors.

This object, by tradition, is the head of the Roman spear that pierced the side of Christ during the Crucifixion. It has been broken ages ago, and repaired with wire using an iron spike at midpoint, which is held to be one of the nails pulled out of the True Cross. I'll leave it to the experts on ancient Roman military equipment to comment on the historicity of the spearhead's design.

I have read somewhere that in some of the literature, this spearhead has been referred to as the Spear of St. Maurice. Interesting, since in the Armeria Reale di Torino is a sword that is traditionally venerated as La Spada di San Maurizio. St. Mauritius/Moritz/Maurizio was a Roman soldier who lived early in the imperial period, converting to Christianity and being martyred as a result. The sword, unfortunately, does not fit his bio since it is a far cry from a gladius or even a spatha; it is a typical north European knightly sword of late Viking type, Oakeshott Type X. Still well worth a visit if you're in town -- in remarkable condition for one of these, with scabbard and a polychromed fitted wooden case for the whole.
Again, great information. I'm posting below the full page on which the spearhead is depicted, as well as a closer view of the text that I think pertains to the image. Also, I'm including an image of the actual artifact from the museum in Vienna. It is interesting to note the details of the illustration compared to the piece itself.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 08:01 AM   #9
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There was a documentary on History Channel (or similar) about this spear head. If I remember correctly the item is very old but some parts are newer with some potential roman era parts included within. The spear head was needed for political reasons in early medieaval times. Many coveted it through time, including Adolf Hitler.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 04:55 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Victrix
There was a documentary on History Channel (or similar) about this spear head. If I remember correctly the item is very old but some parts are newer with some potential roman era parts included within. The spear head was needed for political reasons in early medieaval times. Many coveted it through time, including Adolf Hitler.
Yes, there was a book written on this which I read, it was over 40 years ago and I remember the title as Spear of Destiny. It presented some fascinating historical info and hypotheses, focusing of course on the role it played with the Nazis. Yes, it is very old since its existence has been recorded for a long time, and its provenance with the Habsburgs, and even prior, is well established. Do you recall which parts of it are alleged to be of Roman origin?
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Old 22nd July 2020, 05:43 PM   #11
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Yes, there was a book written on this which I read, it was over 40 years ago and I remember the title as Spear of Destiny. It presented some fascinating historical info and hypotheses, focusing of course on the role it played with the Nazis. Yes, it is very old since its existence has been recorded for a long time, and its provenance with the Habsburgs, and even prior, is well established. Do you recall which parts of it are alleged to be of Roman origin?
”The Museum dates the Lance to the eighth century.[10] Robert Feather, an English metallurgist and technical engineering writer, tested the lance for a documentary in January 2003.[11][14][15] He was given unprecedented permission not only to examine the lance in a laboratory environment, but to remove the delicate bands of gold and silver that hold it together. Based on X-ray diffraction, fluorescence tests, and other noninvasive procedures, he dated the main body of the spear to the 7th century at the earliest[11][15] Feather stated in the same documentary that an iron pin – long claimed to be a nail from the crucifixion, hammered into the blade and set off by tiny brass crosses – is "consistent" in length and shape with a 1st-century A.D. Roman nail.[15] There was no residue of human blood on the lance.[11]
Not long afterward, researchers at the Interdisciplinary Research Institute for Archeology in Vienna used X-ray and other technology to examine a range of lances, and determined that the Vienna Lance dates from around the 8th to the beginning of the 9th century, with the nail apparently being of the same metal, and ruled out a connection with the time of the first century AD.”
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Lance
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