india hand pistol firearm ?? smoothbore bayonet canon

thinreadline · 13th July 2020, 01:14 PM

Very interesting , I like it ... could this not simply be the barrel of an Indian 'turn off' pistol ? What concerns me is that normally on Indian pieces the bayonet blade is hinged and folds under the barrel , locked into place with a catch of the type found on the nasal guard of a khula khud . It would be very impractical to have a permanently fixed bayonet on any type of firearm ( however it is not unheard of in Indian weaponry ... see pic below ) . When you encounter these 'impractical' types of weapons from India , they are often hybrids ,grafted together from unrelated pieces . The bayonet blade looks like the tip of a British Pattern 1853 socket bayonet ... which are very commonly encountered in India.
Some Indian bayonets which are designed to be permanently attached to firearms :

Pic 1 ( middle horizontal bayonet ) showing the half cylindical part which fits under the barrel , the blade is a folding type as described above.
Pic 2 showing the hinge and locking device of an Indian bayonet
Pic 3 a permanently attached Indian bayonet .

rickystl · 13th July 2020, 01:59 PM

Hi Phil

What an interesting item. Maybe South India ? I notice the percussion nipple just behind the threaded portion. This makes me think there was a longer portion of pole which also contained the trigger and hammer assembly. Too bad that portion is missing.
Possibly made for hunting wild boar from horseback ala European style (?)

Rick

thinreadline · 13th July 2020, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Phil

What an interesting item. Maybe South India ? I notice the percussion nipple just behind the threaded portion. This makes me think there was a longer portion of pole which also contained the trigger and hammer assembly. Too bad that portion is missing.
Possibly made for hunting wild boar from horseback ala European style (?)

Rick

that's a real possibility Rick .... in my picture No 3 above I illustrate the muzzle of an Indian musket which also features a permanently fixed bayonet . This weapon I believe to be for hunting boar too. The curious aspect of it is that the bayonet is linked by a rod to the trigger , when the bayonet is 'thrust' into anything it causes the gun to be discharged .... thus anything 'stuck' with the bayonet will also be shot with the gun , simultaneously .

fernando · 13th July 2020, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

This makes me think there was a longer portion of pole which also contained the trigger and hammer assembly.

Some kind of fancy stock ...

rickystl · 14th July 2020, 05:19 PM

The percussion firing mechanism I was thinking about might be similar to the walking cane guns made during the mid-19th Century.

Rick

kronckew · 14th July 2020, 07:37 PM

A hollow pole, internal spring-loaded long rod as a 'firing pin' to hit the cap, L shaped slot for a 'bolt handle' that can be pulled back against the spring, pushed into the base of the L, and flipped with a finger sideways to release the 'pin' would be simple and reasonably easy to make.

rickystl · 14th July 2020, 07:43 PM

Exactly what I was thinking. That's how the cane guns worked.

fernando · 13th July 2020, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline

~

Pic 1 ( middle horizontal bayonet ) showing the half cylindical part which fits under the barrel , the blade is a folding type as described above.
Pic 2 showing the hinge and locking device of an Indian bayonet
Pic 3 a permanently attached Indian bayonet .

Not to forget the SANGIN version, a bayonet provided with extensions that are lashed with rattan or rawhide to the barrel.

.

13th July 2020, 01:14 PM	#1
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	Very interesting , I like it ... could this not simply be the barrel of an Indian 'turn off' pistol ? What concerns me is that normally on Indian pieces the bayonet blade is hinged and folds under the barrel , locked into place with a catch of the type found on the nasal guard of a khula khud . It would be very impractical to have a permanently fixed bayonet on any type of firearm ( however it is not unheard of in Indian weaponry ... see pic below ) . When you encounter these 'impractical' types of weapons from India , they are often hybrids ,grafted together from unrelated pieces . The bayonet blade looks like the tip of a British Pattern 1853 socket bayonet ... which are very commonly encountered in India. Some Indian bayonets which are designed to be permanently attached to firearms : Pic 1 ( middle horizontal bayonet ) showing the half cylindical part which fits under the barrel , the blade is a folding type as described above. Pic 2 showing the hinge and locking device of an Indian bayonet Pic 3 a permanently attached Indian bayonet . Attached Images

13th July 2020, 01:59 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Hi Phil What an interesting item. Maybe South India ? I notice the percussion nipple just behind the threaded portion. This makes me think there was a longer portion of pole which also contained the trigger and hammer assembly. Too bad that portion is missing. Possibly made for hunting wild boar from horseback ala European style (?) Rick

14th July 2020, 05:19 PM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	The percussion firing mechanism I was thinking about might be similar to the walking cane guns made during the mid-19th Century. Rick

14th July 2020, 07:37 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,238	A hollow pole, internal spring-loaded long rod as a 'firing pin' to hit the cap, L shaped slot for a 'bolt handle' that can be pulled back against the spring, pushed into the base of the L, and flipped with a finger sideways to release the 'pin' would be simple and reasonably easy to make.

14th July 2020, 07:43 PM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Exactly what I was thinking. That's how the cane guns worked.