Tombak for comment

Rick · 3rd December 2004, 09:53 PM

A mounted one with a very similar shape .

wolviex · 3rd December 2004, 10:04 PM

Henk, you're right, I shouldn't restore it, I admit, I gone to far with plans, fortunately I don't make decisions about restorating only by my self in this museum

, but with few experts, real masters in what are they doing.
About dating it, it's not younger then end of the 19th century. Could it be older, what do you think ?

After seeing few tombaks I found their scabbards are often carved, this one from Museum is very simple.

Henk · 4th December 2004, 09:14 AM

Wolviex,

It is always pleasant to have some experts around you to decide and to discuss. The only restoring I would like to do on such a piece is the traditional etching with warangan to get up the pamor. It can be smashing such a result. I brought some rusty kerisses to a friend of my who can do the washing. When you see the keris without rust completely white metal and then the warangan doing its job and the complete unexpected pamor coming up, that's exitement.

The one Rick is showing us is mounted as a dagger. The mounting is probably maduran. Yours was mounted as a spear. Considering the patina of the scabbard it is certainly not younger than late 19th century. There are carved examples of these scabbards known but this scabbard is the most usual one. At the top and at the bottom it had a cord with a knot like you see on european military sabres. The blade could be older because the mountings where often replaced. The wooden parts where rotting away in your hands as they use to say. You can see at the edges and the blade itself that this washing with warangan was frequently done. The surface of Rick's tombak is smoother. Rick's one is younger but is also dated.

Nice tomback too, Rick!!

wolviex · 4th December 2004, 11:25 AM

Thank you Henk for your comments. I'll ask experts of metal conservation, what are their possibilities about getting up pamor.

By the way, did you noticed red paint at the end of the scabbard ?

Best regards

Henk · 4th December 2004, 03:40 PM

You're welcome Wolviex, and make sure if the experts wants to do something that warangan is used in the right way. Can you imagine how nice it would be if the conservator of the museum is willingly to ship it to someone of the forummembers who is able to do the washing?

I noticed the red tip of the scabbard. I also see some black spurs. Is that dirt or remains of black paint? I've tombak with a scabbard that is completely red painted.
I will try to scan some drawings of a tombak next week at school so that you have an idea how your tombak must have looked like.

nechesh · 4th December 2004, 07:19 PM

Wolviex, Henk makes a good point. Don't be surprised is your expert in metal conservation looks at you cross-eyed and in confusion when it comes to raising the pamor on this tombak. This is a cultural skill which i doubt you would come across in many museum conservators. There are real experts in this craft that your museum could send this blade out to, but knowing museum they will probably chose not too. Often museums are more concerned with merely maintaining condition rather than restoring it.

wolviex · 4th December 2004, 08:37 PM

Well, I didn't wrote it Nenesh, but I think the same about museums (O boy! and I work in one of them

). I was afraid you'll think about Krakow's National Musuem - what a backward ruin, they don't know how to make pomor, but now I see that my afraids are the same what yours

I admit, chances are not big, but I'll try. Knowing the financial situation, Musuem won't decide to send it elsewhere, especially, this object isn't such important "for Polish historical and cultural aspects" and dspite it's nice, it isn't special.

3rd December 2004, 09:53 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	A mounted one with a very similar shape . Attached Images

4th December 2004, 09:14 AM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Wolviex, It is always pleasant to have some experts around you to decide and to discuss. The only restoring I would like to do on such a piece is the traditional etching with warangan to get up the pamor. It can be smashing such a result. I brought some rusty kerisses to a friend of my who can do the washing. When you see the keris without rust completely white metal and then the warangan doing its job and the complete unexpected pamor coming up, that's exitement. The one Rick is showing us is mounted as a dagger. The mounting is probably maduran. Yours was mounted as a spear. Considering the patina of the scabbard it is certainly not younger than late 19th century. There are carved examples of these scabbards known but this scabbard is the most usual one. At the top and at the bottom it had a cord with a knot like you see on european military sabres. The blade could be older because the mountings where often replaced. The wooden parts where rotting away in your hands as they use to say. You can see at the edges and the blade itself that this washing with warangan was frequently done. The surface of Rick's tombak is smoother. Rick's one is younger but is also dated. Nice tomback too, Rick!! Last edited by Henk; 4th December 2004 at 09:29 AM.

4th December 2004, 08:37 PM	#7
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	The truth come to light Well, I didn't wrote it Nenesh, but I think the same about museums (O boy! and I work in one of them ). I was afraid you'll think about Krakow's National Musuem - what a backward ruin, they don't know how to make pomor, but now I see that my afraids are the same what yours I admit, chances are not big, but I'll try. Knowing the financial situation, Musuem won't decide to send it elsewhere, especially, this object isn't such important "for Polish historical and cultural aspects" and dspite it's nice, it isn't special.

3rd December 2004, 10:04 PM	#2
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Henk, you're right, I shouldn't restore it, I admit, I gone to far with plans, fortunately I don't make decisions about restorating only by my self in this museum , but with few experts, real masters in what are they doing. About dating it, it's not younger then end of the 19th century. Could it be older, what do you think ? After seeing few tombaks I found their scabbards are often carved, this one from Museum is very simple.

4th December 2004, 11:25 AM	#4
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Thank you Henk for your comments. I'll ask experts of metal conservation, what are their possibilities about getting up pamor. By the way, did you noticed red paint at the end of the scabbard ? Best regards

4th December 2004, 03:40 PM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	You're welcome Wolviex, and make sure if the experts wants to do something that warangan is used in the right way. Can you imagine how nice it would be if the conservator of the museum is willingly to ship it to someone of the forummembers who is able to do the washing? I noticed the red tip of the scabbard. I also see some black spurs. Is that dirt or remains of black paint? I've tombak with a scabbard that is completely red painted. I will try to scan some drawings of a tombak next week at school so that you have an idea how your tombak must have looked like.

4th December 2004, 07:19 PM	#6
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Wolviex, Henk makes a good point. Don't be surprised is your expert in metal conservation looks at you cross-eyed and in confusion when it comes to raising the pamor on this tombak. This is a cultural skill which i doubt you would come across in many museum conservators. There are real experts in this craft that your museum could send this blade out to, but knowing museum they will probably chose not too. Often museums are more concerned with merely maintaining condition rather than restoring it.