Bosnian Bichaq

gp · 2nd July 2020, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvain

Thanks for this very useful information GP ! My girlfriend is bidding on one that will be auctionned tomorrow (fingers crossed !

) , so I'm sure she will be happy to have this at her disposal to read through !

je vous en prie / you're welcome !

are you sure....your girlfriend and a bichaq...? Mon Dieu.... what have you done ...?
time 4 U 2 call the guys from Patria Nostra (the Foreign Legion) and enlist ASAP!
Attention: the recruitment office is not in Marseille anymore but AUBAGNE
Allez, allez cher Amice....depechez Vous

Good luck at the auction !!!!

FYI: the picture is of a sapeur arriving in Paris for the Bastille Day parade, July 13th 1939

Battara · 3rd July 2020, 12:09 AM

Actually GP, I will disagree with you on Bosnian Islam. There is a thing called "Folk Islam" just like "Folk Christianity". At one time up till even the Balkans wars in the 1990s, there were elements of old Christianity in several rural and semi-isolated areas that are officially Muslim. Folk Islam is even in Indonesia and the Philippines, as well as in other places. Officially yes the old forms are forbidden, but then again, you make note of the prohibition of the human form in Islamic art, yet we see a lot of human forms in Persian and Indian art. How may Persian khanjars have I seen with human figures carved into them? I also see similar issues with the human face in older Sulu Muslim art in the southern Philippines, where mixed in with the ukkil (vegetative motifs) is a human face.

All of this to say that I believe that these symbols could very well be old solar motifs but not mentioned or recognized as such. There are whole traditions of Folk Islam in Persian and other Shia groups (aka Assassin groups for example).

gp · 3rd July 2020, 05:15 PM

...

gp · 6th July 2020, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Actually GP, I will disagree with you on Bosnian Islam....
... I believe that these symbols could very well be old solar motifs but not mentioned or recognized as such. .

Sorry to say dear friend but whether you agree or not with me is irrelevant nor is your belief.

No offence intended but prior to replying and philosofing, why not first call or write an email to Sarajevo (university, museums, libraries) to deal with facts and be 100 % sure ?

They don't bite and speak & write English, German, French and many other languages, you know...

FYI: the National Museum of BiH releases publications and together with historians also books. Recently one on cold weapons, preceding, following, continuing, elaborating "Starinsko oružje" by Vejsil Curcic 1926.
Hence making all speculations superfluous. For now only in Bosnian though. That's true and makes it hard(er) but not impossible. But they answer me in English...

gp · 6th July 2020, 12:16 PM

back to the topic. Hereby an overview of several "f" marks.
Remarkable: one is "mirrored"; forgery or a left handed one ?
the latter actually not a correct custom in an Islamic country ...

gp · 6th July 2020, 12:18 PM

and also the variety of writing "Sarajevo"and year

3rd July 2020, 05:15 PM	#3
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 830	... Last edited by gp; 3rd July 2020 at 05:51 PM.

6th July 2020, 12:16 PM	#5
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 830	back to the topic. Hereby an overview of several "f" marks. Remarkable: one is "mirrored"; forgery or a left handed one ? the latter actually not a correct custom in an Islamic country ... Attached Images

6th July 2020, 12:18 PM	#6
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 830	and also the variety of writing "Sarajevo"and year Attached Images

3rd July 2020, 12:09 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Actually GP, I will disagree with you on Bosnian Islam. There is a thing called "Folk Islam" just like "Folk Christianity". At one time up till even the Balkans wars in the 1990s, there were elements of old Christianity in several rural and semi-isolated areas that are officially Muslim. Folk Islam is even in Indonesia and the Philippines, as well as in other places. Officially yes the old forms are forbidden, but then again, you make note of the prohibition of the human form in Islamic art, yet we see a lot of human forms in Persian and Indian art. How may Persian khanjars have I seen with human figures carved into them? I also see similar issues with the human face in older Sulu Muslim art in the southern Philippines, where mixed in with the ukkil (vegetative motifs) is a human face. All of this to say that I believe that these symbols could very well be old solar motifs but not mentioned or recognized as such. There are whole traditions of Folk Islam in Persian and other Shia groups (aka Assassin groups for example).