Tumbuk lada with Malayan rhino horn handle?

[mariusgmioc]

Hello Detlef,

While some Tumbuk-lada may have wider blades, there are many with blades indiscernable from those of sewars. Yet, they still are Tumbuk-lada because in this case, it is the hilt that has the defining role.

The same goes for example with the Rencong that quite often has a blade absolutely identical to that of a Sewar, but distinguishes by its long, strongly curved hilt.

And here are the photos of a few sewars in my collection. The first one to the left has rhino hilt an upper scabbard. And I have another one that I couldn't find. They are rather small in size (around 23 cm).

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

While some Tumbuk-lada may have wider blades, there are many with blades indiscernable from those of sewars. Yet, they still are Tumbuk-lada because in this case, it is the hilt that has the defining role.

Hi Marius,

I think that this is your own classification while others seemingly have an other classification, see for example here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=sewar
It's a name game and I guess that hundred years in future will be still a similar discussion!

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

same goes for example with the Rencong that quite often has a blade absolutely identical to that of a Sewar, but distinguishes by its long, strongly curved hilt.

Similar discussion, one person will call it rencong with sewar hilt, others sewar. And there are differences between sewar and rencong blades.

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

here are the photos of a few sewars in my collection. The first one to the left has rhino hilt an upper scabbard. And I have another one that I couldn't find. They are rather small in size (around 23 cm).

Nice collection of fine sewar examples! Like said, I strongly doubt that the handles and cross pieces of the scabbards are from rhino horn, it would be the first I see! Any close-ups where you can show it clearly?

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Here some daggers from my own collection, posted before in the above given thread.
The one in up I would call tumbok lade, handle big (pepper crusher), spine nearly straight, blood groove big and long, round section before hilt very big and round, blade nearly straight.
Second from up a typical sewar, curved slim blade, short tiny blood groove, section before hilt isn't round.
But what are the others? You cant classify ethnograhic blades like coins or stamps, look inside a book and say it's this or this.

You may have noticed that I go mainly by the blades, it's the heart/body of a knife/dagger/sword and with the overall appearance.
You have seen in the given thread that there are different views, all try to classify these lovely daggers but all do it different, who will say that it is wrong or correct?

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

The same goes for example with the Rencong that quite often has a blade absolutely identical to that of a Sewar, but distinguishes by its long, strongly curved hilt.

Here you can see the difference between a recong blade (the three examples in up) and a sewar blade (the three in down).
There are examples which could be tricky but still can get identified by it's blades, see for example here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=sewar

Regards,
Detlef

[mariusgmioc]

Hello Detlef,

It would be very difficult to make photos good enough so one can see the rhino horn structure as I do not have a good camera.

Will give it a try as soon as it will be a sunny day. This weekend is pretty dark and rainy.


PS: Yeah, most rencongs have pretty distinctive blade. Most tumbuk-lada also have a distinctive blade.
Most but not all...
I had a couple of rencong that had exactly sewar blades.

PPS: Have you examined the second one from the bottom in your photo at high magnification?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

PPS: Have you examined the second one from the bottom in your photo at high magnification?

Yes, I have, it's not rhino horn!

[mariusgmioc]

More light this morning sa here are more photos where the hair structure can be seen.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

More light this morning sa here are more photos where the hair structure can be seen.

Sorry Marius, exactly what I thought, it's not rhino! Look to the above given thread about my Thai enep, you will see there the same structure. It's old weathered water buffalo horn, not rhino.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Compare!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

PS: Yeah, most rencongs have pretty distinctive blade. Most tumbuk-lada also have a distinctive blade.
Most but not all...
I had a couple of rencong that had exactly sewar blades.

Would like to see them when possible!

Regards,
Detlef