My "new" cup hilt sword for your kind comments

[fernando]

Thank you all guys. Always nice to hear from such broad participation.
The caption in the museum mentions this sword as one of 'military characteristics'; doesn't specify what branch it has equipped. Actually the entire caption covers a trio in exhibition; a lobster tail helmet, a cuirass ... and the cup hilt sword. This set is located in the museum war restoration room, as the three pieces are contemporary of such period.

[Victrix]

Very impressive piece. Particularly appealing to a Portuguese of course, but with all that history... I guess one can’t rule out naval use, where shorter and broader blades may have been favoured. The horn grip may have been popular in hot climate where metal gets hot to touch and gloves are uncomfortable to wear.

[clockwork]

very beautiful piece Fernando

[M ELEY]

After years of research, I was able to conclusively show that bilbos did indeed "go to sea". This seems like a foregone conclusion based on movies, auction sites appealing to the naval collector, etc, but it was actually more complicated than that. These swords were primarily used by ground troops/soldiers. Even in the New World, sentries guarding the keeps at St. Augustine and Puerto Rico would have been so armed. I had seen famous paintings of Spanish admirals so adorned with the bildo and other cuphilts, but we all know that studios often used such props as...well, as props! It was only after learning that the Spanish and Portuguese Treasure ships coming back from the New World had contingents of soldiers aboard, both to defend the ship and also guard the treasure/discourage mutiny. In later times, the Royal Marines of the British and U.S. marines onboard early American ships followed suit. The point being, these bilbo broadswords and cup hilt rapiers were used by said soldiers and officers aboard ships.
Whew, now after all that, I'm not sure if this one fits into that realm versus a dragoon unit or some such-

[mariusgmioc]

Hello Fernando and thank you for posting this fascinating sword.

In my novice oppinion the blade is much older than the hilt. I believe the blade may be 16th century while the hilt is early 18th century (or late 17th century at best).

So what do you think about that?

PS: The fact the hilt is easily dismountable points to the fact it is a later addition.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

After years of research, I was able to conclusively show that bilbos did indeed "go to sea". This seems like a foregone conclusion based on movies, auction sites appealing to the naval collector, etc, but it was actually more complicated than that. These swords were primarily used by ground troops/soldiers. Even in the New World, sentries guarding the keeps at St. Augustine and Puerto Rico would have been so armed. I had seen famous paintings of Spanish admirals so adorned with the bildo and other cuphilts, but we all know that studios often used such props as...well, as props! It was only after learning that the Spanish and Portuguese Treasure ships coming back from the New World had contingents of soldiers aboard, both to defend the ship and also guard the treasure/discourage mutiny. In later times, the Royal Marines of the British and U.S. marines onboard early American ships followed suit. The point being, these bilbo broadswords and cup hilt rapiers were used by said soldiers and officers aboard ships.
Whew, now after all that, I'm not sure if this one fits into that realm versus a dragoon unit or some such-

WOW! now thatsa some research Cap'n!!!! Thats what I'm talkin; about
It often puzzled me how they could use rapiers (typically of course with long slender blades) aboard these vessels (no matter how easy Flynn and Fairbanks made it look).
These stout blades placed with the cup hilt (or bilbo guards) were essentially 'arming' swords made for these kinds of close in combat in my opinion.

I always wonder just how much actual combat there was aboard ships. Following of course the many cases of artwork and literature which lent well to movie material, it would seem extremely difficult for pitched battle of degree in such confined space. Obviously there were some occasions, but the 'Marine' concept of these forces aboard was that they were transporting to places of battle......much as 'dragoons' rode to battle then dismounted (until later becoming 'heavy cavalry' and fighting mounted).

PS....I agree with Marius, this does seem an earlier blade than the hilt.

[fernando]

Mark, i wouldn't hesitate to assume that these swords have gone to sea. You chose a reason; to equip the forces that complemented the ships personel (one part crew one part soldiers), other forces that were going aboard to replace those ending their commission in distant territories. There are also cargo manifests listing bundles of swords bein shipped. Surely and judging by the period, a great numbers of all such swords were cup hilted. By the way, in my modesty, i am a denialist of "bilbo" swords as a typology; but that is another story.
Marius (and Jim), i would not know how you conclude that the sword in discussion has a blade earlier than the cup bowl hilt; it takes some expertize i don't reach. But i can tell you that the other sword from where i have chosen mine, has the same type of blade (only 2" longer) and the same type of hilt; only that the engravings are even more faded than those in mine. Also the "far from modern" dismounting thread system is the same, only the other with a more unusual pommel.
Concerning the army unit, if we add to these two the example in the militar museum with similar characteristics we can infer that all three swords would have belonged to the same branch, probably a Royal detachment ?. I would not call them Dragons; don't think that army forces in these particular wars were organized with such names.


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[fernando]

Originally Posted by clockwork

very beautiful piece Fernando

Thank you Tony .

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Very impressive piece. Particularly appealing to a Portuguese of course, but with all that history...

You bet .