Tombak Opinions Wanted

[A. G. Maisey]

No Stephen, no problem with the name.

David, I didn`t say that there were non-typical characteristics, I said there were characteristics that made it difficult for me to identify as Javanese.

The overall look and proportion don`t click into a tangguh slot, the ada-ada is very thickly ridged, the material looks a bit porous but this might just be excessive use of acid in cleaning, the metuk---this will be found to be mechanically attached, not forged as one with the blade--- the metuk could possibly fit a couple of classifications, but it seems to combine characteristics from at least two different classifications, possibly three. It might be Javanese, but without it in my hand, I`m not prepared to say. Look, this is not a top level, court quality tombak:- its a nice old fairly middle of the road example. Tangguh was never intended to apply to every piece of wesi aji under heaven, and the further away you get from court standards, the more difficult it gets to fit any wesi aji into a tangguh slot. Tombak are much, much more difficult to classify than keris at any time, and when you get a few pics of something that might or might not be Javanese, its just too hard to be positive about anything. In the hand it may be possible to look at different angles, or examine the texture under a loupe, or gauge the weight, or feel the texture, but from photos I`m afraid its beyond me. Now, if I were to take a punt and say---yeah, OK , probably Javanese---the next question is---oh, its Javanese is it? How old? What tangguh?--- my answer---I don`t know---well how can you say its Javanese?

Actually, my gut feeling is that this tombak could be Balinese.
But don`t hold me to it---that is just a gut feeling, based on a photograph.

As far as staining goes, why not start with this tombak?
I personally think it would be a good thing to start with.
At least its got good clear pamor that you can be fairly confident will show up OK after staining. A lot of old blades, especially old junky ones just show grey and grey with low definition, and a beginner doesn`t know if he`s on the right track or not.
Give it a good scrub up with hot water and dishwash detergent, a light bath in pineapple juice,rinse off,dry, and go right to it, as long as you can get the arsenic, and that might be the hardest part.
One thing is certain:- you cannot do it any harm. If it turns out too dark, you just clean it off with bonami or some other powder sink cleaner--ajax maybe---and try again. In Jawa we use abu gosok---an ash used to polish pans--- and coconut husk, but ajax and steel wool works just as well. I`ve been playing around with cleaning and staining for about 45 years now, I`ve been taught several different methods and have developed a couple of my own. There is no magical secret attached to blade staining, its just patience and experience, and if you get it wrong, clean it off and try again.You definitely cannot do any damage to the blade if you tackle the job correctly.

[doecon]

Thanks Neshech for your explanation, I wasn't in defense, maybe just a bit short in my answer before. Just wanted to repeat that I made a guess only, for the record (IMO the only thing we can do, even upon studying the item from nearby, although the guess might become more better

I honestly respect Alans opinion and I had no intend to be sarcastic, I pretty much meant what it said and the quote should include the "smiley". But for reasons of clarification; If somebody posts an item for ID but mentions that a forum member has already established some indication, then this member (Alan) should have a say first.

Regarding the cleaning itself, I think you should be a bit careful with the steelwool on your blades. Some might prefer a careful start to remove dirt and rust, by using softer material. A piece of wood (softer then steel) is a good and safe scrubber. But as I mentioned before, its your blade, so have fun.

In case you still need some practice material, I brought 3 very good “practice” blades. I will post them in the swap section tomorrow.

[nechesh]

In regards to steel wool there are many grades of courseness. Personally i would only use the finest grade which is #0000. There is very little chance of scratching or otherwise damaging the surface of a blade with this stuff even when working with it quite vigorously. In essence it is a "safe scrubber".

[doecon]

Neshech, I never tried, but you sound convincing enough. Just hope I can find that fine grade around here.

Since we are going slightly off topic I want to do a final effort for IP to give him some (very uneducated) clues about his item.

My main focus is the size of the bottom of the ferule for a first indication. It’s (again in my humble opinion) mostly seen in heavier and larger spears, which makes sense if you imagine the force used with these things (Some were over 2.5 meters long). These spears are called landeyan (I believe) and indeed used in Java and Madura.

(Always wondered if the name could come from the dutch, langejan=Long John; no prove though but the period seems to match).

The dapur is in my opinion common for java. The higher section in the center has the function of removing the spear more quickly after contact with its target and it will create more damage. (The broader base helps to increase the “stopping” power). There is a kind of dapur originally containing holes, but I forget the name ) Holes look a bit like made in later stage. If they were not then Java comes to mind again. As mentioned the are probably for decoration purposes, since these spears were used in (keratin) parades as well. (they still do have those parades)

Pamor doesn’t have the "madura" feel, the small lines on the side of the blade are more seen in java pieces ...it doesn’t really match from what I see from Madura.

Dating is a rough quess, but I placed it somewhere between the arrival of the Dutch and from the looks of the spear not younger then 200 yrs. Markings of numerous cleanings would have had its marks not only in the ada-ada area but on the side as well. I have no specific comment on quality, since its obvious not created for royal ceremonies. However from what I see it looks like it has been actually used (which is not really that surprising). 2 smaller cuts on the side and traces of scars in the center, so I would argue that its not well made. From the “wear” around the border, the well shaped “ferule” I would call it good quality.

There is some older drawings from actual spearfights (maybe on the web as well), could maybe give you some clues as well.

Regarding the later added hilt, I agree that its probably some mark. Maybe you can find details with the KLM (Royal Dutch Airlines), since they were the first and for long time single airmail provider in Indonesia.

General disclaimer : I’m just an amateur in this area, but I hope it has been of some help.

[A. G. Maisey]

Use of steel wool on wesi aji:-

As David remarks, there are a number of grades of steel wool.

One obviously selects the correct grade for the job at hand.
0000 steel wool is used for polishing fine cabinet work prior to applying the finish, and it will definitely not damage iron or steel.

My recommendation for use of steel wool was not associated with the initial preparation of a blade prior to staining.
When somebody first attempts blade staining, a common error is to make the blade too dark. I was recommending the use of steel wool and a powder sink cleaner to remove the stain that is too dark before attempting the job again.Where the stain is only a little bit too dark, or if one wishes to emphasise an area of white pamor material, rubbing down with the inside of the lime skin, and frequent rinsing will often give the desired result.

However, having said that, as a final preparation step prior to beginning to stain, a scrub with steel wool and powder cleaner is also useful. The blade should be a good white prior to commencing to stain.

A common defect with the work of people who stain blades in Jawa is that patches or spots of yellow or brown will be seen under the black. This is usually caused by failure to adequately prepare the blade by bringing it back to a good white, before commencing to stain.

There are a number of levels of quality in blade staining:- a commercial stainer, is capable of handling a large number of blades in a single day by using a method involving the soaking of the blade. This type of staining is a very low cost process, however, there is a failure rate of somewhere around 50% , if we measure against perfection of result.

Other common methods can use more time than the soak method, and are consequently more expensive, but have a higher rate of success. The very best method that is used on high quality wesi aji , and is probably thoroughly understood by only a very limited number of people, can use several days to stain a single blade.
The times I am talking about here are for staining only, beginning with a perfectly clean blade.

To the best of my knowledge steel wool is not available in Jawa.
I have taken steel wool to Jawa, and it was extremely troublesome to prevent from rusting during the wet season.
However, as I have previously remarked, in Jawa abu gosok and coconut husk is used for cleaning or polishing a blade during the staining process.Steel wool is unnecessary.
On an old blade with rough grain, steel wool is not really such a wonderful thing to use, as the threads of the steel wool get caught in the raised grain of the blade. For blades like this a nail brush and powder cleaner, and/or a Scotch Brite pad is probably more practical.

I hear a lot about the great care that must be taken with blades in cleaning and staining, but in truth it is almost impossible to damage any wesi aji if plain common sense is used. This remark does not apply to blades with kinatah work.
The greatest damage can be done during cleaning by the use of acids that are too harsh.
A traditional cleaning acid is coconut water, however, this is seldom if ever used by commercial blade stainers.
They use citric acid, and in fact any type of acid, including sulphuric and hydrochloric, to get a blade clean.These acids are really much, much too aggressive for blade cleaning, but they have the virtue of being fast.

I believe that most of the blades that we see these days with very open grain are probably like this as a result of cleaning with these aggressive acids.

Outside of Jawa, I have only ever used canned pineapple juice for cleaning a blade. On a spot of stubborn rust I will sometimes use a drop or two of hydrochloric, but after the spot is clean I kill the hydrochloric with bicarb of soda, and I always finish the blade in pineapple juice.

The shaped baluster that is found at the base of a tombak blade is called a "metuk".

The word "landheyan" (landeyan) is ngoko for a tombak shaft, and can also be used for a keris handle. It has the same meaning as "jejeran" does in krama and krama inggil. The word "landeyan" is also found in Old Javanese, and in this language has a similar meaning.

[John]

Great stuff Alan and so good to see you on board and unreservingly sharing invaluable information directly.

[BSMStar]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

the metuk---this will be found to be mechanically attached, not forged as one with the blade--- the metuk could possibly fit a couple of classifications, but it seems to combine characteristics from at least two different classifications, possibly three. It might be Javanese, but without it in my hand, I`m not prepared to say. Look, this is not a top level, court quality tombak:- its a nice old fairly middle of the road example.

I hate busting in the middle here....

Can anyone explain if the metuk being attached or forged as one piece has anything to do with the age or quality of the tombak? Thanks.

[Henk]

Good job Tim!!

The staining can be preserved by oiling the blade. It will hold for years when you oil the blade from time to time.