Origin of this Yataghan? (With pictures!)

gp · 17th May 2020, 08:09 PM

some more pics from the book "Starinsko Oruzje"( = old weapons) by Vejsil Curcic , Sarajevo 1926 and one from "la Bosnie l"Herzegovine" by plural writers under supervision of Louis Olivier, Paris 1901.

gp · 17th May 2020, 08:45 PM

and 3 scans from the occupation war in 1878

gp · 17th May 2020, 11:14 PM

from Bosnia itself a little about the yataghan:

http://h.etf.unsa.ba/btp/content/muz..._eng/about.htm

http://h.etf.unsa.ba/btp/content/muz..._eng/about.htm

ariel · 18th May 2020, 07:01 AM

Thanks, I was unaware of those publications.
However, none of them have been cited by Astvatsaturian or Yasar either.

As to your statement that Soviet-Yugoslav relations were rosy till the death of Stalin, please re-read your reference: already in 1948 USSR withdrew all her military and civilian advisers from Yugoslavia and in 1949 the antagonism between the two was already fully apparent. Stalin died in 1953.
But be it as it may, Astvatsaturian started her career in the early 50's, and by that time both Yugoslavia and Albania were de facto "traitors " of the Soviet ideology. Contacts with foreign countries were always very limited and difficult for Soviet citizens and collaborations with the " enemies" was practically unheard of. Soviet researchers worked in complete isolation. Add to that their almost universal inability to read and understand foreign languages together with very controlled and limited access to foreign publications even from major libraries, and the picture becomes even more grim.

gp · 18th May 2020, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Thanks, I was unaware of those publications.
However, none of them have been cited by Astvatsaturian or Yasar either.

You're welcome! Actually this tells more about Astvatsaturian or Yasar...
Although language might also be one botttleneck or showstopper.

But a lot of info (of which many are unaware about untill ones visits the places) can be found locally in Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Greece, Kosovo, Montenegro, Macedonia, Romania and Serbia .

And by the way.... Greek or not to be ( Greek) ?

They all are copies from....

the ILLYRIAN SIKA ☺☼☺

Etymology: Possibly from Proto-Albanian *tsikā (whence Albanian thikë, "dagger, knife"), from Proto-Indo-European *ḱey- ("to sharpen") possibly via Illyrian.
- According to Dictionnaire des Antiquités Grecques et Romaines the name Sica comes from Proto-Indo-European root sek-, meaning "to cut", "to section", however De Vaan declares any connection to Proto-Indo-European *sek- to be formally impossible.

source: Albanian Archaeology 10 August 2019 ·

Kubur · 18th May 2020, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gp

They all are copies from....

the ILLYRIAN SIKA ☺☼☺

Etymology: Possibly from Proto-Albanian *tsikā (whence Albanian thikë, "dagger, knife"), from Proto-Indo-European *ḱey- ("to sharpen") possibly via Illyrian.
·

You are a bit too much Albanian centered...

I will stay with the Greek kopis, same kind of weapon, same period 5 -4 BC, same area...

gp · 18th May 2020, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

You are a bit too much Albanian centered...

I will stay with the Greek kopis, same kind of weapon, same period 5 -4 BC, same area...

birds of a feather....

but as the Cellts passed through along the Danube...

might the origin not be a Celtic faceta...?

TVV · 21st May 2020, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gp

the ILLYRIAN SIKA ☺☼☺

You call it Illyrian, I call it Thracian, someone in Romania would probably call it Dacian...

gp · 31st May 2020, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

You call it Illyrian, I call it Thracian, someone in Romania would probably call it Dacian...

ofcourse and the interaction between neighbours goes without saying.
No offence intended at all.
It is most interesting for me to see these weapons in their earliest phase!
... and from plural regions.

A few more pics on the subject from my book collection:

"Erinnerung an Sarajevo " J. Studnicka & Co., First Edition. Unbound. N.d. (before 1918). Large oblong octavo (19 x 26 cm). Complete suite of 12 color plates of scenes and costumes. Original cloth portfolio.
FYI: J. Studnicka & Co. in Sarajevo is already mentioned in 1898. And the portfolio can be dated before 1918 owing to the publisher's address affixed to the inside and on top of the front cover which reads "Buchhandlung J. Studnicka & Co. Sarajevo - Bosnien" -- no doubt this portfolio was intended for the tourist trade and provides a romantic view of this beautiful city .
Remember "tourist trade" also in relation with the white horn bichaqs for officers of the Bosniaken Regiments after 1882...
Enclosed 2 relevant pics with a detail pic of the weapons

17th May 2020, 08:09 PM	#1
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 925	some more pics from the book "Starinsko Oruzje"( = old weapons) by Vejsil Curcic , Sarajevo 1926 and one from "la Bosnie l"Herzegovine" by plural writers under supervision of Louis Olivier, Paris 1901. Attached Images

17th May 2020, 08:45 PM	#2
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 925	and 3 scans from the occupation war in 1878 Attached Images

17th May 2020, 11:14 PM	#3
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 925	from Bosnia itself a little about the yataghan: http://h.etf.unsa.ba/btp/content/muz..._eng/about.htm http://h.etf.unsa.ba/btp/content/muz..._eng/about.htm

18th May 2020, 07:01 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks, I was unaware of those publications. However, none of them have been cited by Astvatsaturian or Yasar either. As to your statement that Soviet-Yugoslav relations were rosy till the death of Stalin, please re-read your reference: already in 1948 USSR withdrew all her military and civilian advisers from Yugoslavia and in 1949 the antagonism between the two was already fully apparent. Stalin died in 1953. But be it as it may, Astvatsaturian started her career in the early 50's, and by that time both Yugoslavia and Albania were de facto "traitors " of the Soviet ideology. Contacts with foreign countries were always very limited and difficult for Soviet citizens and collaborations with the " enemies" was practically unheard of. Soviet researchers worked in complete isolation. Add to that their almost universal inability to read and understand foreign languages together with very controlled and limited access to foreign publications even from major libraries, and the picture becomes even more grim.