New Kilij: need opinions and translation

M.carter · 12th May 2006, 10:15 PM

Ariel,

I would say that this sword would have been called a "saif", not a Kilij, and certainly not a shamshir, check this out :

http://oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=358

The scabbard is very similar, and also the blade and the koftgari, just the hilt is different, but still, Turkish bulb hilts were called "kilwi" hilts by Syrians, and were produced in Damascus probably even more than the typical "baddawi" classical arabic hilt.

EDIT: Oh and one more thing, the description on that is wrong, as pointed out by Artzi himself a long time ago on swordforum, this blade is made in damascus, not persian.

ariel · 13th May 2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.carter

Ariel,

I would say that this sword would have been called a "saif", not a Kilij, and certainly not a shamshir, check this out :

http://oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=358

The scabbard is very similar, and also the blade and the koftgari, just the hilt is different, but still, Turkish bulb hilts were called "kilwi" hilts by Syrians, and were produced in Damascus probably even more than the typical "baddawi" classical arabic hilt.

EDIT: Oh and one more thing, the description on that is wrong, as pointed out by Artzi himself a long time ago on swordforum, this blade is made in damascus, not persian.

That was exactly my point: a sword made under the artistic influence of Ottoman Empire would be called differently : Kilij in Turkey, Saif in Arabian areas, Mech in Russia,Szablja in Poland etc. Peculiarly, in Russia , a very much Shamshyr -type sabers were called Klych and the local name for the Bedouin sword (resembling shashka most of all ) is also Klych. Undoubtedly, Turkish influence.
This one can legitimately be called Saif in Damascus or Kilic in Istanbul.

M.carter · 13th May 2006, 07:40 PM

I guess there was a much larger sword production centre in Damascus than presumed by many, many people.

I would really like to know if there was a sword industry in Egypt as well, being so culturally similar to Syria, and under Ottoman control as well. I would like to see a kilic 100% assured to be of Egyptian manufacture. Or even one of iraqi manufacture.

Continuously seeing kilics like this one, turning out to be Syrian rather than Turkish (of course turkish style), makes me wonder if indeed most of these items labeled turkish are indeed of turkish manufacture.....

12th May 2006, 10:15 PM	#1
M.carter Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 176	Ariel, I would say that this sword would have been called a "saif", not a Kilij, and certainly not a shamshir, check this out : http://oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=358 The scabbard is very similar, and also the blade and the koftgari, just the hilt is different, but still, Turkish bulb hilts were called "kilwi" hilts by Syrians, and were produced in Damascus probably even more than the typical "baddawi" classical arabic hilt. EDIT: Oh and one more thing, the description on that is wrong, as pointed out by Artzi himself a long time ago on swordforum, this blade is made in damascus, not persian.

13th May 2006, 07:40 PM	#3
M.carter Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 176	I guess there was a much larger sword production centre in Damascus than presumed by many, many people. I would really like to know if there was a sword industry in Egypt as well, being so culturally similar to Syria, and under Ottoman control as well. I would like to see a kilic 100% assured to be of Egyptian manufacture. Or even one of iraqi manufacture. Continuously seeing kilics like this one, turning out to be Syrian rather than Turkish (of course turkish style), makes me wonder if indeed most of these items labeled turkish are indeed of turkish manufacture.....