old shamshir

francantolin · 29th April 2020, 09:55 AM

Sure !

But I don't think your ears are brown when not enlightened
and hope for you they are not thick and hard and fibrous as wood ...

I have other brown horn hilts and no light at all

mahratt · 29th April 2020, 10:49 AM

Thank you for taking a photo backlit. Now the structure of the horn shows that this is not a rhino ...

Green · 29th April 2020, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Thank you for taking a photo backlit. Now the structure of the horn shows that this is not a rhino ...

How does the rhino horn look like when it is backlit ?

Kubur · 29th April 2020, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

How does the rhino horn look like when it is backlit ?

Lines more straight, more compact amd without scales

ariel · 29th April 2020, 01:47 PM

Francantolin:

You got an honest old munition grade shamshir. I like those. Whether it was made in Persia proper, or in one of the "persianized" localities is and will remain unknown, but the overall gestalt is no doubt Persian.

Not every Persian or any other fighter was wealthy enough to afford a walrus handle. This is why we see a lot of Persian shamshirs utilizing cheaper handle materials such as oxhorn, deer antler and even wood. From the practical point of view it did not matter: the proof was in the blade, although even those were of a widely different quality.

It is just like with all other antique objects: museums tend to collect and exhibit flashier examples in a perfect state of preservation: rich materials, weapons belonging to royalty, signed by famous masters etc. Simpler examples were lost, reforged, modified, or just rusted away.

The al-Sabah collection in Kuwait specifically acquires only items that are gem-encrusted, gilt or made of exotic and costly materials. If we use it as as a representative source and a standard, all other Indian weapons would be regarded as renovated or just plain fakes.

mahratt · 29th April 2020, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Lines more straight, more compact amd without scales

Absolutely right

francantolin · 29th April 2020, 06:30 PM

Hello everybody,

Here some pictures of the hilt with / without backlit,

I think too ( thank you Ariel for your comment !) that it was an old fighting weapon and not a ''court sword''.
( is it pre-19th century ??)

First I thought it was made of wood as told the seller or horn,

when I cleaned it and the surface make me think more of ?
don't really know?? : Ibex or deer horn antler
and time and special treatments ...

Then trying with torch light, the translucence directed me to giraffe horn or rhino as often discussed on the forum...

The red light effect is amazing ! ( rhino, giraffe or not )

Hope these pictures can help to fix it.

What do you think ?

francantolin · 29th April 2020, 09:04 PM

And two more ''back light pictures'',
taken with another cellphone and his ''targeted'' torch.

Better...

mahratt · 30th April 2020, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

What do you think ?

This is a good shamshir. A real sword for war.
I think this is the 19th century (most likely the second half). The fact is that very few 18th century shamshirs are in private collections.
Now about the handle of a shamshir. The handle is made of a cow horn or buffalo horn. This is normal for that time. A handle from a rhino horn would not be made with such a simple blade and crossguard.

29th April 2020, 06:30 PM	#7
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 906	Hello everybody, Here some pictures of the hilt with / without backlit, I think too ( thank you Ariel for your comment !) that it was an old fighting weapon and not a ''court sword''. ( is it pre-19th century ??) First I thought it was made of wood as told the seller or horn, when I cleaned it and the surface make me think more of ? don't really know?? : Ibex or deer horn antler and time and special treatments ... Then trying with torch light, the translucence directed me to giraffe horn or rhino as often discussed on the forum... The red light effect is amazing ! ( rhino, giraffe or not ) Hope these pictures can help to fix it. What do you think ? Attached Images

29th April 2020, 09:04 PM	#8
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 906	And two more ''back light pictures'', taken with another cellphone and his ''targeted'' torch. Better... Attached Images

29th April 2020, 09:55 AM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 906	Sure ! But I don't think your ears are brown when not enlightened and hope for you they are not thick and hard and fibrous as wood ... I have other brown horn hilts and no light at all

29th April 2020, 10:49 AM	#2
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Thank you for taking a photo backlit. Now the structure of the horn shows that this is not a rhino ...

29th April 2020, 01:47 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Francantolin: You got an honest old munition grade shamshir. I like those. Whether it was made in Persia proper, or in one of the "persianized" localities is and will remain unknown, but the overall gestalt is no doubt Persian. Not every Persian or any other fighter was wealthy enough to afford a walrus handle. This is why we see a lot of Persian shamshirs utilizing cheaper handle materials such as oxhorn, deer antler and even wood. From the practical point of view it did not matter: the proof was in the blade, although even those were of a widely different quality. It is just like with all other antique objects: museums tend to collect and exhibit flashier examples in a perfect state of preservation: rich materials, weapons belonging to royalty, signed by famous masters etc. Simpler examples were lost, reforged, modified, or just rusted away. The al-Sabah collection in Kuwait specifically acquires only items that are gem-encrusted, gilt or made of exotic and costly materials. If we use it as as a representative source and a standard, all other Indian weapons would be regarded as renovated or just plain fakes.