Thoughts on this lot from ebay

Flavio · 11th May 2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

I always knew them as Mambele from the Azande tribe. In the most recent version of "Three feathers" Sudanese dervishes emerged from under the sand and attacked the Brits with these swords. I thought that was just Hollywood confusion. Any evidence that West or Central African Moslems participated in the Mahdi rebellion?

Hello Ariel. The azande swords are a little different and more rare: the point is wider and are less curved than the one on the ebay, that, to tell you the truth, i have watched wrong because this one isn't a Bandia-Benge as i have written, but a mongelima kondo (TRIBAL ARTS vol I/n1, pag 58). In the film "The Four Feathers", the last one, some dervishes carry in hand some swords that are very similar to those of the Bandia-Benge (mambeli).

picture 1: group of Mongelima kondo
picture 2: group of bandia benge mambeli
picture 3: two azande sword

ariel · 12th May 2006, 12:55 AM

And, of course, I missed one feather...

Just tells you how concentrated I was on this movie...

Spunjer · 12th May 2006, 04:09 PM

here are close ups of the krisses

http://www.historicamericana.com/pas...p?ItemId=35303

Ian · 12th May 2006, 06:24 PM

Thanks Ron. The close ups help a lot. The top kris certainly seems to be an older form, possibly 18th C. if we believe Cato's classification. At one time this had a larger pommel, perhaps junggayan, that has been lost. This sword would take some time to restore but it is probably fairly valuable as an older example. The other appears to have a small ivory kakatua and also would need some restoration IMO. Again, quite a valuable example.

Even with the costs of restoration work, the purchaser could probably recoup most of his/her investment by restoring and selling these two swords.

Ian.

Spunjer · 13th May 2006, 04:30 AM

you're welcome, ian. the older kris appears to have a twisted core...

Mapico1 · 14th May 2006, 10:30 PM

Hi,sword left bottom is indeed a Bengé sword from N-Congo,middle one is Tsjokwé from Congo,border with Angola,top one is a Fang sword from Gabon.
From what I can see on the small images all appear to be period 1900-1920.
Regards,Danny

mross · 15th May 2006, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Thanks Ron. The close ups help a lot. The top kris certainly seems to be an older form, possibly 18th C. if we believe Cato's classification. At one time this had a larger pommel, perhaps junggayan, that has been lost. This sword would take some time to restore but it is probably fairly valuable as an older example. The other appears to have a small ivory kakatua and also would need some restoration IMO. Again, quite a valuable example.

Even with the costs of restoration work, the purchaser could probably recoup most of his/her investment by restoring and selling these two swords.

Ian.

They do help. I tried to find close ups of these before the auction but was unable to. Ron where did you find them? If I had seen these photos, I would have gone higher. Less of a pig-in-a-poke. Of course I would have kept the kalis and sold the other stuff.

Spunjer · 16th May 2006, 01:55 AM

lol, i was the first bidder on the lot. i asked the seller and he gave me the link. what prompt me from going higher was the fact that i had my sights set on something else at that time.

12th May 2006, 12:55 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	And, of course, I missed one feather... Just tells you how concentrated I was on this movie...

12th May 2006, 04:09 PM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	here are close ups of the krisses http://www.historicamericana.com/pas...p?ItemId=35303

12th May 2006, 06:24 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,519	Thanks Ron. The close ups help a lot. The top kris certainly seems to be an older form, possibly 18th C. if we believe Cato's classification. At one time this had a larger pommel, perhaps junggayan, that has been lost. This sword would take some time to restore but it is probably fairly valuable as an older example. The other appears to have a small ivory kakatua and also would need some restoration IMO. Again, quite a valuable example. Even with the costs of restoration work, the purchaser could probably recoup most of his/her investment by restoring and selling these two swords. Ian.

13th May 2006, 04:30 AM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	you're welcome, ian. the older kris appears to have a twisted core...

14th May 2006, 10:30 PM	#6
Mapico1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 86	Hi,sword left bottom is indeed a Bengé sword from N-Congo,middle one is Tsjokwé from Congo,border with Angola,top one is a Fang sword from Gabon. From what I can see on the small images all appear to be period 1900-1920. Regards,Danny

16th May 2006, 01:55 AM	#8
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	lol, i was the first bidder on the lot. i asked the seller and he gave me the link. what prompt me from going higher was the fact that i had my sights set on something else at that time.