Sunda sword or golok?

Sajen · 29th March 2020, 10:22 PM

So it would be a pedang abet when I understand the given threads correct.

A. G. Maisey · 29th March 2020, 11:28 PM

Actually, in correct ngoko Javanese a "golok" is a dagger, but in both Malay and Bahasa Indonesia, a golok is a short chopper or cleaver.

Pedangs are swords.

You do not ever use a cleaver or chopper as a sword.

Think about the pedang luwuk:- it is short, the front of the blade is wider than the ricasso section, the blade point declines to the edge. It could easily be called a golok, and it serves the work purpose of a golok, so if if I was using a pedang luwuk to chop light brush, I'd call it a golok, but if I was using it to defend myself I'd call it a pedang, and then later when I was telling my mates about how I sent the mongrels running with blood all over them, I'd call it a pedang luwuk.

So when I hear people in Solo referring to little short chopping blades as "goloks" they are actually using the Solo form of Indonesian, which mixes ngoko and Bahasa Indonesia.

Its the same old story:- we cannot understand the correct name for anything --- not just sharp pointy things --- unless we understand the language and how it is used in varying situations or to different people.

So what do we call this item under discussion?

Well, anywhere in Central Jawa I'd simply call it a pedang, but if it was definitely made and used somewhere else, maybe I'd need to learn another name for it, and that name might not be pedang, or golok, or anything else that is in the lexicon of collectors.

Sajen · 29th March 2020, 11:43 PM

Hello Alan,

Yes, understand!

But we speak here about a Sunda blade and Amuk describe the "sword" from Willem, which is only a little bit shorter, as Golok Pandjang Djoeragan (high-end long golok) but both swords, the ones from Willem and Maurice show a different blade shape, so my question. I personally would describe my example as pedang.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 30th March 2020, 02:15 AM

Yeah, so would I Detlef, but in reality the name used in place of origin and place of use might be something different.

This is the constantly recurring problem of the Name Game:- we do not know sufficient to be positive about a lot of things.

Sajen · 30th March 2020, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yeah, so would I Detlef, but in reality the name used in place of origin and place of use might be something different.

This is the constantly recurring problem of the Name Game:- we do not know sufficient to be positive about a lot of things.

Agree complete with you Alan. Would be interesting to read Amuks comment!

Regards,
Detlef

29th March 2020, 10:22 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	So it would be a pedang abet when I understand the given threads correct.

29th March 2020, 11:28 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,017	Actually, in correct ngoko Javanese a "golok" is a dagger, but in both Malay and Bahasa Indonesia, a golok is a short chopper or cleaver. Pedangs are swords. You do not ever use a cleaver or chopper as a sword. Think about the pedang luwuk:- it is short, the front of the blade is wider than the ricasso section, the blade point declines to the edge. It could easily be called a golok, and it serves the work purpose of a golok, so if if I was using a pedang luwuk to chop light brush, I'd call it a golok, but if I was using it to defend myself I'd call it a pedang, and then later when I was telling my mates about how I sent the mongrels running with blood all over them, I'd call it a pedang luwuk. So when I hear people in Solo referring to little short chopping blades as "goloks" they are actually using the Solo form of Indonesian, which mixes ngoko and Bahasa Indonesia. Its the same old story:- we cannot understand the correct name for anything --- not just sharp pointy things --- unless we understand the language and how it is used in varying situations or to different people. So what do we call this item under discussion? Well, anywhere in Central Jawa I'd simply call it a pedang, but if it was definitely made and used somewhere else, maybe I'd need to learn another name for it, and that name might not be pedang, or golok, or anything else that is in the lexicon of collectors.

29th March 2020, 11:43 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	Hello Alan, Yes, understand! But we speak here about a Sunda blade and Amuk describe the "sword" from Willem, which is only a little bit shorter, as Golok Pandjang Djoeragan (high-end long golok) but both swords, the ones from Willem and Maurice show a different blade shape, so my question. I personally would describe my example as pedang. Regards, Detlef

30th March 2020, 02:15 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,017	Yeah, so would I Detlef, but in reality the name used in place of origin and place of use might be something different. This is the constantly recurring problem of the Name Game:- we do not know sufficient to be positive about a lot of things.