Origin of HANCER daggers

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by ariel

I think we are talking about different things.
Of course, Kurds were engaged in occupations other than robbers and porters.
But my question remains the same: do you know of any Kurds professionally involved in weapon manufacture in Georgia, Armenia or North Caucasus?

We know your interest for Caucasus and Central asia but I think this post is about Ottoman Turkish daggers with walrus hilts...

About Kurds, from Saladin to today's wars in Irak and Syria, they showed their great capacities as warriors.

You have on this forum a video showing a Kurd blacksmith.

Not to mention the Kurdish shield very often described as Ottoman Turkish shield.

Dealers and collectors who mentioned Albanian jambiya refereed to present day Albania in the Balkans. I never heard about Caucasian Albania.

[mariusgmioc]

I checked Rivkin's book on the "Arms and Armor of the Caucasus" and this ttype of daggers isn't even mentioned.

Now regarding Kurdish origins... well there are many stylistical similarities with other Kurdish daggers of more certaind origins (see photoas attached - the blades and decoration of the blades), but they also have the "hooked" hilt that is very specific and uncommon with Kurdish daggers.

However, I believer the "hooked" hilt has some similarity with the hooked Yataghan hilts and with some Turkish bicaq hilts (see photo).

That's why I am inclined towards the Turkish origin of these daggers.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

That's why I am inclined towards the Turkish origin of these daggers.

The two first daggers that you posted are often described as Baghdadi jambiya.
They are very similar to the Kurdish ones but with silver filigree fittings.
I might be wrong but it will be good to focus only on the first dagger that you posted as the shape is different from the others.
But I agree that they share many features.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Kubur

I never heard about Caucasian Albania.

Google it. Not many know about it.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by ariel

Google it. Not many know about it.

Exactly! Not many know about it.

So, when authors or collectors were referring to these daggers as "Albanian" daggers they were referring to the Albanian Albania, and not to the "Caucasian Albania."

Moreover, the point here is to realistically try to establish the origin of these daggers and since they quite certainly are not from the Caucasus area, there is little point to speculate about the "Caucasian Albania"...

[ariel]

Old son, I have warned you from the git go it was a crazy idea.

But at least you know now about two Albanias:-)

Useless informations are the most precious ones.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by ariel

Google it. Not many know about it.

Thanks, always good to learn something.
Plus I saw a Caucasian Iberia... more and more confusing...