Metal Balinese hilt with sheath

Jean · 22nd February 2020, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

BTW, I'm far from convinced that this blade ever had any gonjo.

Anyway, the only available moniker would be "out-of-pakem"...

With low quality blades, it does not make sense to try to fathom dhapur or traditional naming conventions since there probably never were any, sorry.

Regards,
Kai

Hi Apolaki,
I agree with Kai about the low quality of the blade but I enlarged the pic of the base of the blade (sorsoran) and it seems that the pejetan (cavity on the gandik side of the blade) extends to the bottom of the blade, which is an indication that the ganja is missing. Apolaki, is it the case?
Regards

David · 22nd February 2020, 03:33 PM

I'm with Jean on this one. I believe that this keris is indeed missing its gonjo.
From these photographs i cannot tell if this is a Balinese blade. It does look a bit short and has no obvious distinguishing features that would mark it as Balinese in origin.
I also think that the hilt that is perhaps on the low end of middle quality for this type. Definitely contemporary and not made for a person of any particular standing, but much worse examples of this style exist for sure.
Noting that the "stones" are glass or paste is not, as has been pointed out on this forum numerous times, necessarily a mark of poor quality. In Bali pastes and glass "stones" often appear on high quality dress.
I would image there is a strong likelihood that this is a dealer special. An old, incomplete blade in poor condition matched with a semi-fancy hilt and placed in a recently carve formal style sarong that is not particularly executed well.

apolaki · 23rd February 2020, 05:10 AM

Hi Jean. Here are photos of the blade I just cleaned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hi Apolaki,
I agree with Kai about the low quality of the blade but I enlarged the pic of the base of the blade (sorsoran) and it seems that the pejetan (cavity on the gandik side of the blade) extends to the bottom of the blade, which is an indication that the ganja is missing. Apolaki, is it the case?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 23rd February 2020, 05:28 AM

This is a very peculiar looking keris.

I will not speculate on this because there is absolutely nothing available to base speculation on, but this blade is most certainly not like anything I have ever seen, and I have seen one hell of a lot of keris.

Paul B. · 23rd February 2020, 09:12 AM

The squarish pesi is unlike a keris tang should look like.

kai · 23rd February 2020, 12:37 PM

Nah, it's Moro - just joking...

I stand by my comments from post #11.

Regards,
Kai

David · 23rd February 2020, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Nah, it's Moro - just joking...

Well, i understand why you followed that up with "just joking", but when i got a clear look at that tang it was the first thought that crossed my mind as well. Looks a helluva lot like a Moro kris tang.
This blade is quite an enigma. As Alan states, i've never seen anything quite like it. It has obviously been pattern welded and has pamor, but the work at the base is rather poor. You may well be correct that it never had a gonjo, but i wonder if that was the original intent. It seems to be an unfinished project. That or it is a re-worked piece. The tang looks weird beyond being flat like a Moro kris tang. It might just be the photos, but it looks like it might have been welded on rather than formed from the original billet.
Anyway, whatever this is i feel fairly confident now saying that i don't think this is a Bali keris.

apolaki · 23rd February 2020, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well, i understand why you followed that up with "just joking", but when i got a clear look at that tang it was the first thought that crossed my mind as well. Looks a helluva lot like a Moro kris tang.
This blade is quite an enigma. As Alan states, i've never seen anything quite like it. It has obviously been pattern welded and has pamor, but the work at the base is rather poor. You may well be correct that it never had a gonjo, but i wonder if that was the original intent. It seems to be an unfinished project. That or it is a re-worked piece. The tang looks weird beyond being flat like a Moro kris tang. It might just be the photos, but it looks like it might have been welded on rather than formed from the original billet.
Anyway, whatever this is i feel fairly confident now saying that i don't think this is a Bali keris.

There also seems to be alot of striation marks across the entire blade and the edges looked sharpened perhaps using an electric grinder tool. Could it be it was originally a Balinese blade that was reworked into the shape and condition it is now or is it a "missing link" between Indonesian keris & Moro kris?

GIO · 23rd February 2020, 07:24 PM

This is a blade left at an intermediate phase of manufacturing. The pesi has still to be rounded, the lower part of the blade to be formed and the ganja inserted. You may refer to "The world of the javanese keris" by Garrettand Bronwen Solyom, page 8, bottom line, n. 17, 19 and 20. The photos well explain the manufacturing at this stade.

22nd February 2020, 03:33 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I'm with Jean on this one. I believe that this keris is indeed missing its gonjo. From these photographs i cannot tell if this is a Balinese blade. It does look a bit short and has no obvious distinguishing features that would mark it as Balinese in origin. I also think that the hilt that is perhaps on the low end of middle quality for this type. Definitely contemporary and not made for a person of any particular standing, but much worse examples of this style exist for sure. Noting that the "stones" are glass or paste is not, as has been pointed out on this forum numerous times, necessarily a mark of poor quality. In Bali pastes and glass "stones" often appear on high quality dress. I would image there is a strong likelihood that this is a dealer special. An old, incomplete blade in poor condition matched with a semi-fancy hilt and placed in a recently carve formal style sarong that is not particularly executed well.

23rd February 2020, 05:28 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	This is a very peculiar looking keris. I will not speculate on this because there is absolutely nothing available to base speculation on, but this blade is most certainly not like anything I have ever seen, and I have seen one hell of a lot of keris.

23rd February 2020, 09:12 AM	#5
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	The squarish pesi is unlike a keris tang should look like.

23rd February 2020, 12:37 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Nah, it's Moro - just joking... I stand by my comments from post #11. Regards, Kai

23rd February 2020, 07:24 PM	#9
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 328	This is a blade left at an intermediate phase of manufacturing. The pesi has still to be rounded, the lower part of the blade to be formed and the ganja inserted. You may refer to "The world of the javanese keris" by Garrettand Bronwen Solyom, page 8, bottom line, n. 17, 19 and 20. The photos well explain the manufacturing at this stade.