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Old 18th February 2020, 07:50 PM   #1
kahnjar1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
The “edge down” is not characteristic of Caucasian origin, more like Turkish.
The decoration of the handle is not something I have seen on Caucasian either. Moreover, the handle and the details of the scabbard do not match. Both suspension ring part and the chape are made of silver while the handle is of a different materiel, and the throat is of yet another one. The existing scabbard parts are decorated in niello of Circassian style ( it does not prove their Circassian origin: this style was copied extensively) and the handle I cannot say what is the materiel of the scabbard cover, but it is not customary leather
Usually, the width of the blade is the same as the lower quillon; this one is much more slender and the juncture between the two seems to be worked on rather extensively.

I think it is a combination of different parts and the age is uncertain, but the entire object might have been assembled well after shashkas as fighting swords went out of use. Conceivably, scabbard parts were placed upside down during the assembly.

In brief, a highly isuspicious object and I do not like it.
Thank you Ariel for your comments....I agree regarding the scabbard not matching the sword hilt, and having a mix of fittings. I suppose it is also possible that at some stage that the two could have been miss-matched. It also appears that it is likely to have been recovered at some stage.
However it is the sword itself that interests me, and it is the origin of that which i would like to establish. The sword handle is silver by the way.
Stu
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Old 19th February 2020, 11:15 PM   #2
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Default Shashka Origin???

To clarify what I am trying to establish, herewith is a pic of the sword without the scabbard (which has been correctly described as a "bitser").
The handle is silver and is decorated extensively. As can be seen from the other pics, the handle is of the "eared" type, and has the letters A.C stamped into it. So can anyone please tell me if this sword is Caucasian, Khyber or Bukhara, or some other type.
Stu
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Old 19th February 2020, 11:44 PM   #3
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This sword, without reservation, is Caucasian. I really like his hilt. I saw exactly the same thing at the Russian Ethnographic Museum in St. Petersburg. I think this handle is made in Tiflis, Georgia. The letters AC are the hallmark of the Assay Chamber inspector.
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Old 20th February 2020, 05:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ren
This sword, without reservation, is Caucasian. I really like his hilt. I saw exactly the same thing at the Russian Ethnographic Museum in St. Petersburg. I think this handle is made in Tiflis, Georgia. The letters AC are the hallmark of the Assay Chamber inspector.
Thank you very much Ren. Just the information I was seeking.
Stu
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Old 20th February 2020, 06:52 PM   #5
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To me, the blade looks very different from the typical blades used in the Caucasian or Russian shashkas.

I also checked with the examples in Kiril Rivkin's book but didn't find a match...

Also, the hilt is significantly wider than the blade which I consider a clear indication they were matched together in a later marriage...

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Old 20th February 2020, 08:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
Also, the hilt is significantly wider than the blade which I consider a clear indication they were matched together in a later marriage...

It is quite possible. Traces of soldering between the blade and the hilt indicate repair.
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Old 21st February 2020, 01:24 AM   #7
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I could not find anything similar in any of Rivkin’s books, in any edition of Astvatsaturyan’s book, or in a book ( album, essentially) of the Russian Ethnographic Museum.
It is possible that the latter does not show the entire exhibition or of the storage.
If so, I would appreciate seeing a picture with the label and/or provenance.
It should be mentioned that quite a lot of examples presented in their album are grossly mislabeled. I remember a discussion on the Russian Forum about it with multiple concerns. The publisher/editor agreed with the reaction but had 2 explanations: publishing team had no time for any review and they had to use museum labels. Pretty flimsy, isn’t it ?

Assay chamber stamps used initials of the inspector, a symbol ( female head or a coat of arms of a city where it was assayed) and the purity of silver. I am unaware of any official stamps with Cyrillic “AC” and no other official information required by law from the imperial assay inspectors. АС cannot be an abbreviation of Assaying Chamber: Russians did not call it as such in English. In Russian it was Probirnaya Palata.

I am certain you are unlikely to argue that the vastly different styles of decoration of the handle, suspension element/chape and throat indicate haphazard assembly.

The “ edge down” mode of suspension is also not Caucasian.

In summary, I see nothing Caucasian in the final product, and the “dog breakfast” of parts ( including conceivably even the blade, with which you hesitantly agree) do not give me any faith in the authenticity of this chimera of a shashka.

Last edited by ariel; 21st February 2020 at 04:07 AM.
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