Opinions on Javanese Keris

[Jean]

Originally Posted by JustYS

I’m a little bit confused, which symbol is representing “pilulut”?

RSWORD’s keris showed 2 types of symbol : Circle and Oval.

Jean’s keris showed the same Oval symbol.

Keris Jawa showed Oval symbol but not the same as Oval symbol as RSWORD and Jean’s Oval symbol.

Keris Jawa’s Oval symbol is similar as RSWORD’s Circle symbol.


Cheers,

Hello,
The raja pilulut motif/ symbol is the oval one, but on the "Keris Jawa" specimen it has an additional transverse line which is uncommon.
Regards

[JustYS]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello,
The raja pilulut motif/ symbol is the oval one, but on the "Keris Jawa" specimen it has an additional transverse line which is uncommon.
Regards

Thank you Jean, yes you are right.

I’ve found it also in page 58 of Keris Jawa:

[Jean]

Originally Posted by JustYS

Thank you Jean, yes you are right.

I’ve found it also in page 58 of Keris Jawa:

Yes, thank you!

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by JustYS

Thank you Jean, yes you are right.

I’ve found it also in page 58 of Keris Jawa:

Sometimes I saw keris with a scorpion craving on the bilah, any idea what does it means?

[JustYS]

Originally Posted by Anthony G.

Sometimes I saw keris with a scorpion craving on the bilah, any idea what does it means?

Hi Anthony,

Based on my limited knowledge the scorpion carving on the Keris is normally combined with Cakra carving (like RSWORD circle symbol) that represents Kalacakra.

Kala (scorpion) = Evil
Cakra = Weapon of Kreshna to destroy Evil

So Keris with Kalacakra carving means to protect the owner from Evil

[A. G. Maisey]

You might be right YS, but then again ---

The scorpion is a bit of a problem child, how the scorpion is regarded is very subject to situation and to personal belief. If the scorpion is regarded from a Muslim point of view, it can have a somewhat different interpretation than if it is regarded from an Indian and Hindu point if view. In Jawa & Bali I have heard a number of interpretations of the meaning of a scorpion as a symbol, and frankly, I am reluctant to give an opinion on exactly what the scorpion means, because it seems to me that used as a talisman in Jawa & Bali, it can mean different things to different people.

Kresna is Krishna when he appears as a wayang character. Krishna is an avatar of Wisnu, and one of Wisnu's attributes is the cakra, so that's where Kresna's Cakra Baskara comes from, but then you have the problem of understanding if you're dealing with Kresna, or with Wisnu himself:- the cakra can certainly represent Wisnu, but can it also represent Kresna? Maybe.
Kresna's principal weapon was the conch shell --- he had others, but the conch is understood as representative of Kresna.

If we understand the cakra in the conventional sense of representing Wisnu, and then we attach one of the other interpretations for the scorpion, for instance "dominance", or "defiance", we can get a somewhat different reading. Scorpions are not always bad. Running on memory, but I seem to recall that in ancient Persia the scorpion was the symbol for Ishara, the Goddess of Love --- yeah, Persia is not Jawa, but in Jawa the scorpion can be a symbol for sex.

Reading talismanic symbols is a dangerous game:- you can read one meaning, based upon what you understand to be so, but you do not necessarily have the same understanding as the person who originally used that symbol.

But one thing is certain:- any talismanic symbol that we see attached to a keris has been designed to ensure that no evil spirits occupy the keris:- evil will always seek out an empty space, and a keris is more often empty than occupied.

[RSWORD]

Thanks for all the additional comments and discussion. It has been very enlightening.

I can confirm that the gangya is indeed separate.