Persian inscription- Late 18th century Shamshir

KharaghdariSingh · 3rd December 2019, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwiatek

I think it's not really Persian, but more likely Hindustani or Panjabi in Persian/Arabic letters. I'm not very experienced in reading this type of inscription, but the first word looks like کهندراو "Khanderao", which actually sounds more Maratha. There's a samvat date at the end - it says sam[v]at, with a date above it, the only numbers of which I can see are 2 and 7, which doesn't help that much. I supposed it could be Vikram Samvat [18]27, which would be 1770.

All the Sikh inscriptions I've seen on pieces of this type say akal saha'i ('may the Immortal One protect ...") followed by the name of the owner. This clearly isn't the same formula, however

I believe the first letter of the inscription is an an "alif". The ک is just the part where the koftgari stops, and the inscription begins, although it does look like the letter.

kwiatek · 3rd December 2019, 06:51 PM

I don’t think it can be an alif because it is joined to the next letter. That leaves lam or kaf/gaf. I would go for the latter as I’ve seen “Khanderao” on several inscriptions spelt this way, including for Khanderao Gaekwad, though I think this is earlier than that. I thought the word before sam[v]at might be “Narsingh” but it’s very hard to see

Jens Nordlunde · 3rd December 2019, 07:26 PM

Now you are into a discussion where, few or any can follow you, so please tell us in which language it is, and from which area.

ariel · 4th December 2019, 01:58 PM

As per Elgood’s text in the Jodhpur book, names ending in “- rao” or starting in “khan-“ are seen among Rajastani inscriptions. And the overall style of decoration would fit. In short, I doubt Deccani attribution.

kwiatek · 4th December 2019, 02:49 PM

I wouldn’t suggest this was Deccani. Just that owner’s first name may have been “Khanderao” or a variant on it, though I may be wrong. The most famous Khanderaos were the Maratha ruler Khanderao Gaekwad of Baroda in Gujarat and Apa Khanderao, the Maratha general who under the Scindias of Gwalior took quite a bit of North India including Haryana. As I say though, late Indian inscriptions are not my forte and I can ask someone I know who specializes in them

Jens Nordlunde · 4th December 2019, 10:37 PM

Ok the language/inscription are important, but have any one taken an interest in the decoration?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th December 2019, 02:48 PM

In support please see http://sikhmuseum.com/nishan/weapons/tulwar.html

4th December 2019, 02:49 PM	#5
kwiatek Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 156	I wouldn’t suggest this was Deccani. Just that owner’s first name may have been “Khanderao” or a variant on it, though I may be wrong. The most famous Khanderaos were the Maratha ruler Khanderao Gaekwad of Baroda in Gujarat and Apa Khanderao, the Maratha general who under the Scindias of Gwalior took quite a bit of North India including Haryana. As I say though, late Indian inscriptions are not my forte and I can ask someone I know who specializes in them Last edited by kwiatek; 4th December 2019 at 06:26 PM.

3rd December 2019, 06:51 PM	#2
kwiatek Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 156	I don’t think it can be an alif because it is joined to the next letter. That leaves lam or kaf/gaf. I would go for the latter as I’ve seen “Khanderao” on several inscriptions spelt this way, including for Khanderao Gaekwad, though I think this is earlier than that. I thought the word before sam[v]at might be “Narsingh” but it’s very hard to see

3rd December 2019, 07:26 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Now you are into a discussion where, few or any can follow you, so please tell us in which language it is, and from which area.

4th December 2019, 01:58 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	As per Elgood’s text in the Jodhpur book, names ending in “- rao” or starting in “khan-“ are seen among Rajastani inscriptions. And the overall style of decoration would fit. In short, I doubt Deccani attribution.

4th December 2019, 10:37 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ok the language/inscription are important, but have any one taken an interest in the decoration?

10th December 2019, 02:48 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	In support please see http://sikhmuseum.com/nishan/weapons/tulwar.html