Persian inscription- Late 18th century Shamshir

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by Rich

Dumb question: what is the difference between a shamshir and a tulwar? I have a tulwar nearly identical to the sword posted; has gold floral motif on hilt but blade is curved with double fullers and is mechanical damascus.

I thought shamshir had straight cross-bar guards and a hook style grip. Is it area of origin; shamshir being Persian but tulwar mainly of the Indian sub-continent?

Please clarify the difference for me. Sorry can't post a pic of my tulwar, but here is one similar from Google images
This is not my main area of interest (Nihonto), just one of several swords I've picked up in my 60+ years of collecting sharp pointy things.

Rich

The name-game for oriental sabres is ongoing and has indefinite ending in sight. So I DO NOT KNOW THE "CORRECT" ANSWER (if there is any) to your question.

Nevertheless, I will give you MY interpretation of the names.

First, I believe that primarily the blade should be defining for the sword.

Shamshir blades are characterised by very deep curvature, are fairly narrow and have triangular (wedge) cross-section.

The shamshir, while traditionally Persian, was adopted by Mughal India, Ottoman empire and several other cultures. While they all share the narrow deeply curved blade, they are differentiated by the hilt.

So, you can have a PERSIAN Shamshir (first photo),
an INDIAN Shamshir (second photo - or the one in the original posting) or,
an OTTOMAN Shamshir (third photo) or,
an AFGHAN Shamshir (fourth photo).

The classic TULWAR has a wider blade with less curvature (like yours), "Indian ricasso" and the cross-section is flatter with scandi ground edge.

[Rich]

OK, that makes some sense. The blade determines the type of sword, while the mounts determine the cultural origins,etc.

At least with Nihonto we only have to deal with one culture and country of origin.

Oh have I got a headache now and probably several fewer brain cells,

Rich

[KharaghdariSingh]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

The name-game for oriental sabres is ongoing and has indefinite ending in sight. So I DO NOT KNOW THE "CORRECT" ANSWER (if there is any) to your question.

Nevertheless, I will give you MY interpretation of the names.

First, I believe that primarily the blade should be defining for the sword.

Shamshir blades are characterised by very deep curvature, are fairly narrow and have triangular (wedge) cross-section.

The shamshir, while traditionally Persian, was adopted by Mughal India, Ottoman empire and several other cultures. While they all share the narrow deeply curved blade, they are differentiated by the hilt.

So, you can have a PERSIAN Shamshir (first photo),
an INDIAN Shamshir (second photo - or the one in the original posting) or,
an OTTOMAN Shamshir (third photo) or,
an AFGHAN Shamshir (fourth photo).

The classic TULWAR has a wider blade with less curvature (like yours), "Indian ricasso" and the cross-section is flatter with scandi ground edge.

Agreed. In Punjab, this sword is actually called a "goliya," due to the wider curve of the blade, and a thick spine from the piercing point of the blade till the hilt; as opposed to the tulwar, which has less of a curve, and usually no spine.