DOEHOENG KASOENDAN (A Soenda Perspective)

A. G. Maisey · 20th November 2019, 11:31 AM

Thank you very much Amuk, I now understand perfectly, a quick phone call did it for me.

Basa Jero in Basa Sunda can be understood as extremely refined language that will only be understood by a select group of people, a little bit like university undergraduates, or perhaps some members of the British upper class, who use unknown and archaic language forms to impress their fellows.

The other way it can be understood is as a refined jargon, again only comprehensible to members of the group who use that jargon.

The above is pretty much word for word how Basa Jero Sunda was just explained to me, and from what you have just told us about the reason for being of Basa Sunda Jero, then the explanation I have just been given seems to be pretty accurate, in essence it is an archaic jargon that was at one time used by officialdom.

In English "Basa Sunda Jero" can be understood as "Inside Language", in the sense of a select language not meant to be understood by everybody, as I was told, a jargon the purpose of which was to keep secret those things that outsiders should not know.

In fact, it cannot be compared to either Kromo Inggil or Kromo Madyo, which are distinct hierarchical forms of Formal Modern Javanese.

Thank you very much, I really do value knowing this, because over a very long time I have spent a very great deal of time researching some of things you have written, at times I have felt that I was getting close to solving the mystery, when I would discover a word you used in Classical Malay, or in Bahasa Madura, but these were false leads, they never went anywhere.

Now I believe I understand perfectly why these leads were all dead ends.

Again I offer you my most sincere thanks.

Amuk Murugul · 6th March 2020, 01:20 AM

Hullo everybody!

Another doehoeng just to share with anyone interested.
Enjoy!

Name: Sang Poetjoek Oemoen
Desc: Sampana Leres 9Eloek GALOEHPANGAOEBAN
Char: Koekoedoeng , djalwan , pentil , ladjer.
Blade: LxOALxWxT=36.5x43.5x8.96x1.18cm.
Handle: Filigreed white-metal w/ red-stones Pralamba Boeta Para Doeka
Wt: 163g.
Sheath: Wood Djoeng Golekan w/ embossed soeasa o/sheath

Apologies should the photo not be correct on your screen.

Best

Jean · 6th March 2020, 08:51 AM

Hello Amuk,
Thank you for the pic of this interesting piece again! Some comments or questions please:
. The blade looks much older that the hilt and scabbard. This type of hilt is apparently made in Lombok, or perhaps Bali or Sumbawa?
. This style of pendok overlapping on the atasan is fequently seen these days but is it an original design?
. Koekoedoeng = Kembang kacang, djalwan = jalen, pentil = pejetan, and ladjer = greneng

Regards

Jean · 7th March 2020, 02:30 PM

Hello Amuk,
A similar hilt to yours fitted on a new kris from Sumbawa (courtesy of PdV).
Regards

Amuk Murugul · 19th October 2021, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

. ..... This type of hilt is .....
. This style of pendok overlapping on the atasan is fequently seen these days .....

Hullo Jean,

I've changed the hilt for a 'more appropriate' one. Hope it's pleasing.
I've also attached pics of similar oversheaths from 18thC-early19thC. One was a present from Hamengkoeboewono.

Best,

Jean · 20th October 2021, 10:51 AM

Hello Amuk,
Beautiful pieces, thank you!
The silver hilt on the first pic is in coteng style from Patani (Thailand) so not very suitable with this Cirebon kris IMO?
Regards

Amuk Murugul · 20th October 2021, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Amuk,
Beautiful pieces, thank you!
The silver hilt on the first pic is in coteng style from Patani (Thailand) so not very suitable with this Cirebon kris IMO?
Regards

Hullo Jean,

You may be right, but I believe itto be northern coast of western Java.

Best,

David · 20th October 2021, 03:06 PM

Hi Amuk. Why do you believe the hilt you have placed on this keris originated on the North Coast of Western Jawa? It clearly appears to be a coteng hilt.
Do you have some provenance for this assertion. Though i believe many people have traced the evolutionary origin of coteng and tajong hilts back to Jawa the primogenitor hilts that are usually pointed to are not the fully developed coteng or tajong forms. But if you could show evidence that such hilts did exist in Jawa back then you would have an important discovery.

shadejoy · 1st April 2022, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo Jean,

I've changed the hilt for a 'more appropriate' one. Hope it's pleasing.
I've also attached pics of similar oversheaths from 18thC-early19thC. One was a present from Hamengkoeboewono.

Best,

Love the warangka ladrang you have (one from Hamengkoeboewono wow)! I had never seen pendok such as that before, it looks dignified.

Thank you very much for sharing your pusakas with us!

jagabuwana · 4th April 2022, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadejoy

I had never seen pendok such as that before, it looks dignified.

Yeah I really them too. Then again I'm pretty partial to West Java/Sunda stuff.

Interestingly, this style of pendok can be seen in one of the earliest and detailed depictions of the keris we have in art.

Attached is Frans Francken the Younger's "The Cabinet of a Collector", 1617. A Dutch painter.

I know of at least one Sundanese wood carver/mranggi who is attempting to make this style of pendok for collectors of Sunda/West Javanese keris. It doesn't seem to be that common anymore.

A. G. Maisey · 4th April 2022, 09:25 AM

Candi Sukuh, Jawa Tengah, Circa 1440CE

6th March 2020, 01:20 AM	#2
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 472	Another one to view/share Hullo everybody! Another doehoeng just to share with anyone interested. Enjoy! Name: Sang Poetjoek Oemoen Desc: Sampana Leres 9Eloek GALOEHPANGAOEBAN Char: Koekoedoeng , djalwan , pentil , ladjer. Blade: LxOALxWxT=36.5x43.5x8.96x1.18cm. Handle: Filigreed white-metal w/ red-stones Pralamba Boeta Para Doeka Wt: 163g. Sheath: Wood Djoeng Golekan w/ embossed soeasa o/sheath Apologies should the photo not be correct on your screen. Best Attached Images

7th March 2020, 02:30 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Amuk, A similar hilt to yours fitted on a new kris from Sumbawa (courtesy of PdV). Regards Attached Images

4th April 2022, 09:25 AM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Candi Sukuh, Jawa Tengah, Circa 1440CE Attached Images

20th November 2019, 11:31 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Thank you very much Amuk, I now understand perfectly, a quick phone call did it for me. Basa Jero in Basa Sunda can be understood as extremely refined language that will only be understood by a select group of people, a little bit like university undergraduates, or perhaps some members of the British upper class, who use unknown and archaic language forms to impress their fellows. The other way it can be understood is as a refined jargon, again only comprehensible to members of the group who use that jargon. The above is pretty much word for word how Basa Jero Sunda was just explained to me, and from what you have just told us about the reason for being of Basa Sunda Jero, then the explanation I have just been given seems to be pretty accurate, in essence it is an archaic jargon that was at one time used by officialdom. In English "Basa Sunda Jero" can be understood as "Inside Language", in the sense of a select language not meant to be understood by everybody, as I was told, a jargon the purpose of which was to keep secret those things that outsiders should not know. In fact, it cannot be compared to either Kromo Inggil or Kromo Madyo, which are distinct hierarchical forms of Formal Modern Javanese. Thank you very much, I really do value knowing this, because over a very long time I have spent a very great deal of time researching some of things you have written, at times I have felt that I was getting close to solving the mystery, when I would discover a word you used in Classical Malay, or in Bahasa Madura, but these were false leads, they never went anywhere. Now I believe I understand perfectly why these leads were all dead ends. Again I offer you my most sincere thanks.

6th March 2020, 08:51 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Amuk, Thank you for the pic of this interesting piece again! Some comments or questions please: . The blade looks much older that the hilt and scabbard. This type of hilt is apparently made in Lombok, or perhaps Bali or Sumbawa? . This style of pendok overlapping on the atasan is fequently seen these days but is it an original design? . Koekoedoeng = Kembang kacang, djalwan = jalen, pentil = pejetan, and ladjer = greneng Regards

20th October 2021, 10:51 AM	#6
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Amuk, Beautiful pieces, thank you! The silver hilt on the first pic is in coteng style from Patani (Thailand) so not very suitable with this Cirebon kris IMO? Regards

20th October 2021, 03:06 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Hi Amuk. Why do you believe the hilt you have placed on this keris originated on the North Coast of Western Jawa? It clearly appears to be a coteng hilt. Do you have some provenance for this assertion. Though i believe many people have traced the evolutionary origin of coteng and tajong hilts back to Jawa the primogenitor hilts that are usually pointed to are not the fully developed coteng or tajong forms. But if you could show evidence that such hilts did exist in Jawa back then you would have an important discovery.