Cut steel decorations on Indian arms

Silver John · 18th November 2019, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Is the hilt silver plated - or was it?

It’s hard to tell, the entire handle was a rusty brown when I bought it. I have rubbed it down with 000 wire wool as mineral oil which has revealed a few tiny flecks of gold at the edge of one of the motiefs, but no obvious silver yet. I still have some cleaning to do, so I might find some yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Its interesting to think of, how much this hilt have been used to be worn like it is.

Indeed! And I photographed the “good” side, the other is far more worn. It’s almost impossible to see in the picture, but the same pattern that is near the cross guard is also on the palm swell of the handle, just much more faint. An arrangement of flowers in rows, 1,2,3,2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Intersting blade, which could be European, or maybe an Indian copy, as these stamps were copied a lot in India.

I had wondered about that. The blade has Indian features like the stepped spine and large ricasso. I had hoped to reveal a pattern in the blade by etching it, but my initial test panel did not reveal anything at all. Perhaps it is European and so no pattern is to be found?, or perhaps I just need to use a different acid for etching.

Many thanks for the comments!

Nihl · 20th November 2019, 04:33 AM

Just to add to the examples in this thread, here are three pieces I have with cut steel decoration; a pata and bara jamdadu, both from the 17th century, and an early 19th century pata. All of them have floral/vegetal decoration of some sort, though the 19th c pata is quite an exception as it has both a zoomorphic "face" as well as a makara on either side of the gauntlet. The bara jamdadu also probably has a stylized pair of peacocks on it somewhere

kronckew · 20th November 2019, 09:09 AM

cut Steel hilts were popular on court/mourning swords early 19c too, I wonder if they aquired a teaste for it from the Indian portion of the Empire...

Jens Nordlunde · 21st November 2019, 12:00 PM

Nihl, it is very nice steel cut decora tions on your patas.

Hindus and Muslims both used floral decoration, but not for the same reason.
To the Muslims it was pure decoration, but to the Hindus it was often a representation of a diety.

Kronckew, yes the Europeans also used steel cut decoration, but I dont think they used it as much as the Indians.

Cthulhu · 3rd December 2019, 05:25 AM

Wow, nice pieces, all.

Jens, I must admit I can't find anything that's definitively a peacock on your pata. I can imagine them all over, but anything that might be a peacock I could imagine to be just about anything else as well.

And, sadly nothing in my collection has good carved steel decoration. The closest I come is some wrenched panels on hafts. But I'm really enjoying seeing all of your lovely carved steel weapons.

Jens Nordlunde · 3rd December 2019, 02:22 PM

This might help you to find the peacocks.

Cthulhu · 7th December 2019, 03:34 AM

I found one item in my collection that has some figural carving, so here's a photo. The carving is fairly crude and heavily worn, so not exactly a beauty piece.

And thanks for the explanation of the peacocks, Jens. I see real peacocks a few times a week so that's probably what was throwing me off.

20th November 2019, 04:33 AM	#2
Nihl Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 90	Just to add to the examples in this thread, here are three pieces I have with cut steel decoration; a pata and bara jamdadu, both from the 17th century, and an early 19th century pata. All of them have floral/vegetal decoration of some sort, though the 19th c pata is quite an exception as it has both a zoomorphic "face" as well as a makara on either side of the gauntlet. The bara jamdadu also probably has a stylized pair of peacocks on it somewhere Attached Images

20th November 2019, 09:09 AM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	cut Steel hilts were popular on court/mourning swords early 19c too, I wonder if they aquired a teaste for it from the Indian portion of the Empire... Attached Images

3rd December 2019, 02:22 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	This might help you to find the peacocks. Attached Images

7th December 2019, 03:34 AM	#7
Cthulhu Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Central Valley, California Posts: 46	Carved steel zaghnal I found one item in my collection that has some figural carving, so here's a photo. The carving is fairly crude and heavily worn, so not exactly a beauty piece. And thanks for the explanation of the peacocks, Jens. I see real peacocks a few times a week so that's probably what was throwing me off. Attached Images

21st November 2019, 12:00 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Nihl, it is very nice steel cut decora tions on your patas. Hindus and Muslims both used floral decoration, but not for the same reason. To the Muslims it was pure decoration, but to the Hindus it was often a representation of a diety. Kronckew, yes the Europeans also used steel cut decoration, but I dont think they used it as much as the Indians.

3rd December 2019, 05:25 AM	#5
Cthulhu Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Central Valley, California Posts: 46	Wow, nice pieces, all. Jens, I must admit I can't find anything that's definitively a peacock on your pata. I can imagine them all over, but anything that might be a peacock I could imagine to be just about anything else as well. And, sadly nothing in my collection has good carved steel decoration. The closest I come is some wrenched panels on hafts. But I'm really enjoying seeing all of your lovely carved steel weapons.